Compression increase ? what will I get ?

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If all you do is bump compression one full point, you will see somewhere between 4-5%, depending on actual compression, before changing anything, if you do absolutely nothing else.

And no, if you paid any attention to what I said, none of it is crap.

I've tested gas stations for water content. Doesn't take a lab. Fill a can, pour some in a mason jar, seal it and shake the crap out of it, then watch it. You can see water separate, if the ground tanks are faulty.

I've seen the numbers in MPG increase, running mid grade over min. This is likely due to octane rating increase, allowing a better tune, combined with more consistent results coming from the stations. Water content doesn't change within the same gas station, just use a known, good gas station (test it yourself)

There is a difference between the capabilities of an engine that runs 8:1, against 9:1.

It just takes a minute to think about the change and how it will change the combustion.

Assuming you've done everything you can to the engine, at 8:1. Timing advanced as much as it can be, air to fuel ratios are sound, throttle positions are correct, etc... Now think about how that fuel is going to react under load, under 9:1 ratio, with absolutely no other changes to timing, fuel, etc.

If you've got the engine tuned so that 8:1 is pulling as much out of each cycle as it can get, there is no room for more advance in the combustion. Anything you do to that combustion is going to cause pre-detonation.

Can you tune a car to run on regular, at 9:1? Yes. It requires LESS timing, which will hurt performance and defeat the purpose of moving up in cylinder PSI.

When you change CR, you change how the engine deals with fuel. This changes the entire tune. Higher cylinder pressure will respond on a higher percentage level to all performance tuning.



It's worth it, if not just for the hardened seats. They are induction hardened, so don't look for ductile iron seats on the exhaust. The entire combustion chamber is already there. The lack of pitting on the seats will tell you, on a used set that is in good shape.

Any increase in cylinder psi/ drop in cc is going to help the engine make more power, per cycle, increasing your potential fuel economy, as long as you tune it for better fuel, it will return the favor.



If your dynamic is down at 8:1, 87 being min-rating octane (I would assume) in your area, I think you are asking for it with that vehicle.

I thought I wanted min octane (85 up here), until I started toying with mid-grade and higher fuels and saw results. Even if it's a wash in dollar per mile, you'll find more consistent results at stations. In my experience, less water in the tanks, too.

If your TBI corrects from o2, you might actually see more out of mid-grade than my carbed engine would.

I'd play with some mid-grade on that engine to see what it does and stick with something that will work on 87 with the build.

It would be nice to hear from someone else running TBI. On the Toyota truck with port injection I saw results in, it went from 20-22mpg, by just changing fuels, on 8.7:1 CR.



Min octane sucks for everything, if you're willing to tune. I promise.

There are guys fetching awesome MPG in big block cars on the HotRod Pro Tour, with O/D, running premium, because they dial their engines and set the car up right.

The current motor in my Ramcharger is an old and very worn '82 360, and it rattles a little on 87 with the TBI controlling the timing. It's extremely sensitive to 2-3 degrees one way or the other. Any less it's dog, any more it rattles. I assume the factory was taking EGR into account when they programmed the curve, and it's non-functional. The oil getting in the chambers isn't helping either I'm sure. No way to have EGR with the AirGap I'll be using on the new motor either without some southern engineering. However.........

.....there is a simple way to take the timing control out of the ECM's hands and still provide a crank signal so it triggers the injectors. That allows a custom curve via an aftermarket distributor, and still lets the ECM control the fuel. A FAST setup {or similar} would be the berries, but that will have to wait. Too many irons in the fire to spend another $2000+ on a toy right now.
Seems a lot of trouble to just to keep the TBI vs just going to a carb? I like the fact that it runs at any angle with no dying and flooding, it's self tuning and I never have to tinker with it. And it's cheap.:headbang:

All that aside, this thing will get driven all over, and with no promises on fuel quality I think I'd better go with the lower compression and the above setup.
 
Min octane sucks for everything, if you're willing to tune. I promise.

There are guys fetching awesome MPG in big block cars on the HotRod Pro Tour, with O/D, running premium, because they dial their engines and set the car up right.

You've convinced me. As I said above:

My local Costco charges 20 cents more per gallon for 91 octane than for 87 octane. That difference works out to 5.8% more for premium. To break even you would only need to achieve 0.87 mpg more assuming a baseline of 15 mpg.

So my question is this:

What Static/Dynamic CR would you build for if you planned to run 91 octane in a 273 with cast iron heads, no quench, and an automatic transmission?
 
I would shoot for 8:1 and under DCR.
 
^^^ Ya heard what the man said. Rob knows.

Static and Dynamic can vary greatly.

I know a guy... who doesn't return phone calls (probably busy with finals) who is running 10:1 in a 360 on 87...

Magic? If only I could bottle it. We're at 5400 feet above sea level and get away with 85 min, so 87 is what we run as a mid grade fuel. He's got his timing down at 32, I believe, to keep it from detonation. I've driven the car and I've never experienced any detonation, but he says that it will catch a little grief on a hot day or climbing a hill. Probably best to run premium on it, running the snot out of it.

The answer is Dynamic changes with altitude, among other things. The Scamp is running 9.65:1 static. It puts me at around 7.9 Dynamic at this altitude, which doesn't give me any grief on 87 (mid grade up here).

I'm going to log fuel economy with the Scamp, when it's back together, with the O/D and see what it does on a tank of premium with a starter kick-back tune for timing, and compare.

If I see worthwhile results with mile/dollar ratio, even if it breaks even compared with mid grade, I'll be going a step further and I won't look back at lower grade fuels.

Around here, we're about $0.12 higher from min octane to mid grade, so if I can fetch around 1mpg, it will beat it. I'd have to check the difference from mid-grade to premium.

Makes me wish I'd have set it up for a supercharger.

Right now, I'm pushing 34 timing on mid grade with no problems, because of the quench. No air gap/ cold air or anything. twin snorkel air cleaner. I could go denser if I wanted to, but it didn't need it.
 
The current motor in my Ramcharger is an old and very worn '82 360, and it rattles a little on 87 with the TBI controlling the timing. It's extremely sensitive to 2-3 degrees one way or the other. Any less it's dog, any more it rattles. I assume the factory was taking EGR into account when they programmed the curve, and it's non-functional. The oil getting in the chambers isn't helping either I'm sure. No way to have EGR with the AirGap I'll be using on the new motor either without some southern engineering. However.........

.....there is a simple way to take the timing control out of the ECM's hands and still provide a crank signal so it triggers the injectors. That allows a custom curve via an aftermarket distributor, and still lets the ECM control the fuel. A FAST setup {or similar} would be the berries, but that will have to wait. Too many irons in the fire to spend another $2000+ on a toy right now.
Seems a lot of trouble to just to keep the TBI vs just going to a carb? I like the fact that it runs at any angle with no dying and flooding, it's self tuning and I never have to tinker with it. And it's cheap.:headbang:

All that aside, this thing will get driven all over, and with no promises on fuel quality I think I'd better go with the lower compression and the above setup.

You bet they calculated for detonation change on EGR.

One thing you might consider, because it sounds like you wheel the truck, is a water injection system. Those can be made from an old washer reservoir and some homebrew plumbing/ wiring.

I think you're right, though, on that truck, it sounds to me like the ECU is doing everything it can and struggles with min as is. I like your idea of divorcing the ignition and going aftermarket, but keeping the TBI. If it were my truck to drive, I'd do that, too.
 
Point is, the dynamic CR increases with VE, so what looks good on paper, say 8:1 or less may still not come out with the intended results.
There are so many variables that affect VE, cam specs, single/dual plane, port efficiency, exhaust, barometric pressure etc.. Then there's basic engine design, rod length, piston dome design, chamber design, ambient and engine temps, fuel quality, timing curve, rich/lean mixtures, ......geez.

For someone of my feeble skills, riding the ragged edge of CR is a crapshoot at best. So......I'm going to take a shot in the dark and go with about 7.8:1 dynamic/9:1 static and see what happens. A 1008 FelPro .039" gasket hits that mark......at least on paper.
 
For someone of my feeble skills, riding the ragged edge of CR is a crapshoot at best. So......I'm going to take a shot in the dark and go with about 7.8:1 dynamic/9:1 static and see what happens. A 1008 FelPro .039" gasket hits that mark......at least on paper.

The good news is that you will have inexpensive options for thicker or thinner head gaskets so you can adjust if you miss the mark.
 
The tighter the quench distance, the better mixture you will see and fewer hot spots.

Anything you may risk in bumped CR, from gasket thickness loss, you will see more improvements with quench, if you've got it. If not, stay away from the 9's if you are going to mess with min octane in that truck.

I honestly think you should try better fuel, because of your injection system. You might be surprised at what it does.
 
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