eddy heads and what rockers to use?

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396 Signet said:
Did you look into any other options other than a cam change? Thanks!
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The only other option is to have the lifter bores bushed. But you need to find someone who has experience with a small block mopar. This isn't a chevy or ford. And that procedure costs between $500-$700. It is the best option if done correctly just not the cheapest:

http://www.customdesignperformance.com/machine/lifter_bushings.html

The most practical solution is a smaller base circle cam. If you notice, you have tons of room for the lifters to ride lower in their bores. A smaller base circle will prevent the oil groove from being exposed on the top without it being exposed on the bottom either. And the cam profile will not be compromised with the small base circle cam.

I think the benefits of a roller cam will pay off despite all the grief to get them to work correctly in the older blocks.
 
Bill, I wonder what heads he's running, lifters, and if the block is relieved for the tie bars... I know a few that have been there, done that! :-D
 
396 Signet said he is running J heads. I only had to grind the block up high in the lifter valley for mine to fit. Once in place they had tons of room:

LifterGrindAreas.jpg
 
FASTBACK340 said:
I might be the isolated example here, but I tried to run Crane rollers on my Eddy's and the contact pattern on the valve stem was almost to the edge of the valve! I would have had to shim the rockers and possibly use lash caps. Not to mention buy ANOTHER set of custom pushrods. The block wasn't decked, the heads are new and un-milled, and I was using an .063 (IIRC) FelPro head gasket. The cam is a Comp dual pattern .488/.491. I would STRONGLY suggest you check everything while it's still a non-runner and you can pull it apart easily if there's any problems. As far as just bolting it all together, it didn't work for me.
SANY0006-vi.jpg

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I yanked the rollers out and installed a stock shaft, pushrods, & rocker set-up.
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Sunofabitch runs just fine..... :-D

[URL="http://media.putfile.com/CooolIdle"]http://media.putfile.com/CooolIdle[/URL]
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I would bet that your problem here is not the Crane rockers. They are correct. The valves may be the wrong height to put the roller where it needs to be. The roller should be slightly off center inboard when on the base circle, slightly off center outboard at half lift and back to slightly off center inboard at full lift. Playing with different thickness shaft shims is the way to correct this. The stock stamped rockers were designed to accomodate manufacturing variances with a fairly substantial radius area to contact the valve.

The Indy rockers are junk and will not hold up. I don't know WTF is up with that but it's true. Too many have already told me this and one of them has built way too many record setting engines.

You guys running the Comp Magnum roller rockers, how is the roller pin retained in the rocker arm?


P.S. Read this thread: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=27590
 
Sometimes putting longer valves in makes the problem worse. It's a crap shoot some times.

I had a set of harlands on eddys that you couldn't get them close to right. Part of the problem is the rocker stand and valve angles aren't parallel. You shim the rockers and the tip moves further out.

Many of the rockers are not the same distance from shaft center to tip. In my experience, large trunion rockers have more issues here because the pushrod side can't be located close enough to the rocker shaft center.
 
In that case you probably needed to machine the pedestal to make the geometry correct and shorter push rods....a big pain in the azzzz.....
 
340sFastback said:
The only other option is to have the lifter bores bushed. But you need to find someone who has experience with a small block mopar. This isn't a chevy or ford. And that procedure costs between $500-$700. It is the best option if done correctly just not the cheapest:

http://www.customdesignperformance.com/machine/lifter_bushings.html

The most practical solution is a smaller base circle cam. If you notice, you have tons of room for the lifters to ride lower in their bores. A smaller base circle will prevent the oil groove from being exposed on the top without it being exposed on the bottom either. And the cam profile will not be compromised with the small base circle cam.

I think the benefits of a roller cam will pay off despite all the grief to get them to work correctly in the older blocks.
Click to expand...

There are a # of potential options. Was pondering bushing the lifter bores, all 16 would not need done. Smaller base circle cam is not my favorite. Maybe the new Comp Cams lifters solve the problem? Solid rollers might be possible but don't know if you could use with the hydraulic roller cam? In any event my engine has to come apart again, I had it mostly assembled. Might just say the hell with it & go to flat tappet.

This is going to cost lots regardless. I bought this stuff years ago but had to put it on ice because of a painting fiasco where I didn't know if I was going to get my car back. No chance of returns. Believe the cam & lifters were about $750 at the time.

The block is an unmolested 72 340. No way should Crane have designed their cam/ lifter sets so that you have to bush lifter bores with a mild .500 lift street cam. They were intended for use with stock blocks.

BTW, saw your moparts stuff on this from last year, unfortunately I bought my stuff way before then. Would never have gone through this hassle if I'd known better.
 
crackedback said:
Sometimes putting longer valves in makes the problem worse. It's a crap shoot some times.

I had a set of harlands on eddys that you couldn't get them close to right. Part of the problem is the rocker stand and valve angles aren't parallel. You shim the rockers and the tip moves further out.

Many of the rockers are not the same distance from shaft center to tip. In my experience, large trunion rockers have more issues here because the pushrod side can't be located close enough to the rocker shaft center.
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I just re-read what you wrote. If their is a variation in the distance from the shaft centerline to the roller tip, that is a major problem. My Crane Gold Race rockers are all the same. I had problems with Comp Magnum rockers. The pins would loosen up and I had one tip snap right off.
No problems since switching to the Cranes.
 
mopar340dave said:
I just re-read what you wrote. If their is a variation in the distance from the shaft centerline to the roller tip, that is a major problem. My Crane Gold Race rockers are all the same. I had problems with Comp Magnum rockers. The pins would loosen up and I had one tip snap right off.
No problems since switching to the Cranes.
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Yep. There is no consistency in any of the aftermarket rollers.
 
What I meant was my Crane Gold Race rockers are all the same dimension. What rockers are you running now?

P.S. Mercruiser uses Crane Gold Race Rockers exclusively. They have to be tough to hold up in that environment.
I'm sure that many will not agree but i prefer a solid flat tappet cam over any other type when you are at or below .575" lift. Why? Because they have way less moving parts and make killer power with rev capability exceeding the hydraulics.
My 340 Clay Smith solid is the C-304-6-B....525" lift/258 dur @ .050" lift. It made monster power with the stock 10.5 comp. and turned past 7000 rpm with no issues. With the 3.91 gears and the 4 speed it would give a healthy bark into 4th gear at 90+.
 
mopar340dave said:
What I meant was my Crane Gold Race rockers are all the same dimension. What rockers are you running now?

P.S. Mercruiser uses Crane Gold Race Rockers exclusively. They have to be tough to hold up in that environment.
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Jesels on the race stuff...

I use the Cranes (MP) and Comps on my street/strip cars along with my favorites Ductile Iron Crane/Isky and MP's.
 
mopar340dave said:
396 Signet, what duration is that crane cam?
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It's a Crane 699611, 276I/ 284E, .339" lift at exhaust (.509") which is the problem. Checked the left side, have one that I can see daylight, the rest of the exhausts are borderline OK, all intakes OK. Didn't bother to check the right side after I saw the crappy one. A post on moparts says the Comp Cams are OK in stock blocks way more than this, will check Monday. Sorry to hijack this post, it was intended for rockers. My rocker geometry is fine with the Comp magnums.
 
396 If you have a micrometer, measure from the bottom of the roller to the top of the oil band and

CALL BRIAN!!!!
 
The probs I had with the Comp Magnums was about 15 years ago. They hae changed the design since then. Bob Mazzolini says he runs them without issue, but does use Jesel and T&D...says they are indeed better.

What holds the pin for the roller in place on the Magnums?
The old ones used a crimp, sorta like a solid rivet.
 
This is a real wacky one....the Crane flat tappet hyd that is in my 340 right now is about the same lift with more duration than your cam and it does not float valves until 6500. Yours will float at 6000.
If I were you I would either call Brian like crackedback said or change to a nice lumpy Clay Smith solid with matching springs. I am leaning towards going back to the solid myself. The hydraulic is really weak in comparison.....JMO. I adjusted the valves at oil change time the first two changes....after that I did it every other and did not need to adjust....just checked em'.
The 7000 rpm+ rev factor was really nice.:snakeman:

Your cam from Cranes site:
GOOD IDLE, DAILY USAGE, OFF ROAD, PERFORMANCE AND FUEL EFFICIENCY. 2600-3400 CRUISE RPM, 8.75 TO 10.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 2000-5500
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 1400
Maximum RPM 5400
Valve Float 6000
 
Signet, the Comp Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Lifters are the same dimension as the Cranes so switching to those lifters is not going to solve the problem. You need to get a smaller base circle cam custom ground then the oil grooves won't get exposed.
 
340sFastback said:
Signet, the Comp Cams Retrofit Hydraulic Roller Lifters are the same dimension as the Cranes so switching to those lifters is not going to solve the problem. You need to get a smaller base circle cam custom ground then the oil grooves won't get exposed.
Click to expand...

Looks like that's the way I'll go, called Crane & they'll regrind for $202. They say this is a problem for early 70's small blocks, just my luck. Thanks.
 
396 Signet said:
Looks like that's the way I'll go, called Crane & they'll regrind for $202. They say this is a problem for early 70's small blocks, just my luck. Thanks.
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As of last summer they claimed they had never heard of anyone having problems so be thankful that is not the case now.
 
396 Signet said:
Looks like that's the way I'll go, called Crane & they'll regrind for $202. They say this is a problem for early 70's small blocks, just my luck. Thanks.
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And it's an issue with more than the stuff from the early 70's.

Good to read you have some sort of viable solution. Too bad they wouldn't cut it as a service deal.
 
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