Fast is relative, Hemi vs. Hemi

[65 Cuda 340]

I reckon I can tell this story now. Many decades have passed, statute of limitations has run, Dad passed away a long time ago, Mom has long been retired from school teaching, and now has dementia and lives in an assisted living facility.

Back in 1953, Mom and Dad owned a 51 Kaiser. Flathead six, and Dad was tired of having a slow car. Wanted a fast one. They test drove a 1952 Chrysler Saratoga, Chrysler's lightest body with a 331 Hemi V8 and 180 horsepower - close to double that of the Kaiser. It was so fast (remember, this was 1953) it scared Mom and she vetoed the deal. A bit later they bought a 1952 DeSoto, 276 Hemi with 160 hp. Not as fast as the Chrysler, but still quick for the day. Couple years later, after the 55's came out, Dad took that car to a speed shop because now it wasn't fast enough. Dual carbs, heads milled .100, dual exhaust and Mallory Magspark ignition did the trick, but that's another story.

Dad always regretted not getting the Chrysler, and swore he would not let Mom veto a fast car ever again.

Fast forward a couple of decades. Dad bought a Hemi Charger. So one day, Mom was driving the Charger on I-285 in Atlanta when she was challenged by a GTO. So she raced it. At high speed. I wasn't in the car, Dad was in the front passenger seat, and my kid brother was in the back. Mom beat the GTO (of course). Brother reports that from the back seat he saw the Charger's speedometer hit 150 mph.

This from the woman who originally was scared by 180 hp.

 

[indian]

Great story enjoyed it

 

[roccodart440]

At 150 she was on her own joyride because no 60's GTO was hitting 150. That charger on the other hand could hit 150.

The NASCAR hemi daytona is good for 200ish.

 

[Oldiron440]

The hemi daytona is good for 200ish.

Bull ****

 

[roccodart440]

That's what top speed's website claims and a few others.

I'm sure it can hit 150.

 

[Super-Cuda]

I'm not sure how accurate the speedos are in our mopars but I can attest to at least 130 MPH in a Daytona Charger.

I was in one , the one posted below , when I was 12 years old. Straight road , two lanes only, basically a farm road .

We were on our way to a local stock car track and the driver was one of the participants in the race and he was late!

I was in the front passenger seat and looked over. 130 and climbing before driver took his foot out of it.

I was terrified and exilerated at the same time ! Amazing car that stuck with me all these years. Car is still in my province and has been totally restored.



Anybody know this Hemi Daytona in Newfoundland?

 

[33IMP]

Sorry, I don't believe anything that says a stock Daytona, hemi or otherwise, can hit 200. Just cause it's a little more aerodynamic? Unh-unh. Not enough power, too much gear, too short a tire. I MIGHT believe 150, but the hemi would need 200MORE horsepower to get to 200 from 150. It's not there, short of a Nascar 750hp race motor. The theoretical top speed of my A12 runner is UNDER 110mph. Rated peak horsepower in high gear is EIGHTY SEVEN mph (not 187).
If a STOCKER can do 200, how come a Nascar stocker took months to get to a 200 mph lap, and it was considered a HUGE milestone?
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet!" Abraham Lincoln.

 

[33IMP]

426 hemi hp was rated at 5000 rpm. Even if you give it power to six grand, enough to overcome drag, and a stick, so no converter slip, and stock 3.23 gears, and taller than stock tires, you get.......148mph
If you have a hemi Daytona, with 3.55s, a 727, and 500rpm PAST power peak?.......
114mph.
200? Ha ha ha.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

426 hemi hp was rated at 5000 rpm. Even if you give it power to six grand, enough to overcome drag, and a stick, so no converter slip, and stock 3.23 gears, and taller than stock tires, you get.......148mph
If you have a hemi Daytona, with 3.55s, a 727, and 500rpm PAST power peak?.......
114mph.
200? Ha ha ha.

3.55 is roughly 10% lower (higher numerically), so I would think 3.55's would drop theoretical top speed about 10% from 3.23's. I.e., low 130's with 3.55. Am I miscalculating?

BTW, I have estimated the actual top speed of Dad's hemi (now mine) at just over 140 with 3.23 gears. How close that is, don't know. There are formulas, but it's hard to accurately figure torque convertor slip and tire growth, and just a small percentage difference can easily be worth several mph. Anyway, it has 4.10 gears now, so much lower top speed. I did once see 6100 rpm in my 65 340 Barracuda, 4-speed, 3.23 gears while drafting a 308 Ferrari. Again, long time ago. Have slowed down a bit in my old age.

 

[66fs]

I reckon I can tell this story now. Many decades have passed, statute of limitations has run, Dad passed away a long time ago, Mom has long been retired from school teaching, and now has dementia and lives in an assisted living facility.

Back in 1953, Mom and Dad owned a 51 Kaiser. Flathead six, and Dad was tired of having a slow car. Wanted a fast one. They test drove a 1952 Chrysler Saratoga, Chrysler's lightest body with a 331 Hemi V8 and 180 horsepower - close to double that of the Kaiser. It was so fast (remember, this was 1953) it scared Mom and she vetoed the deal. A bit later they bought a 1952 DeSoto, 276 Hemi with 160 hp. Not as fast as the Chrysler, but still quick for the day. Couple years later, after the 55's came out, Dad took that car to a speed shop because now it wasn't fast enough. Dual carbs, heads milled .100, dual exhaust and Mallory Magspark ignition did the trick, but that's another story.

Dad always regretted not getting the Chrysler, and swore he would not let Mom veto a fast car ever again.

Fast forward a couple of decades. Dad bought a Hemi Charger. So one day, Mom was driving the Charger on I-285 in Atlanta when she was challenged by a GTO. So she raced it. At high speed. I wasn't in the car, Dad was in the front passenger seat, and my kid brother was in the back. Mom beat the GTO (of course). Brother reports that from the back seat he saw the Charger's speedometer hit 150 mph.

This from the woman who originally was scared by 180 hp.

Sounds like my friend Nick's mother. Maybe 120 lb and their daily driver was a Super Stock 63 light weight 4 speed Ford Galaxie with a 2 x 4 barrel 427 side oiler. She could drive that car. What hoot she was, would take no stuff and would let you know if you were worth running or not!

63 ford super stock

I also used to love watching my mother drive the 64 Barracuda when it was the only car available. Solid cammed 284 duration 273, 4 speed, with straight thru exhaust. Cool memories...

 

[66fs]

3.55 is roughly 10% lower (higher numerically), so I would think 3.55's would drop theoretical top speed about 10% from 3.23's. I.e., low 130's with 3.55. Am I miscalculating?

BTW, I have estimated the actual top speed of Dad's hemi (now mine) at just over 140 with 3.23 gears. How close that is, don't know. There are formulas, but it's hard to accurately figure torque convertor slip and tire growth, and just a small percentage difference can easily be worth several mph. Anyway, it has 4.10 gears now, so much lower top speed. I did once see 6100 rpm in my 65 340 Barracuda, 4-speed, 3.23 gears while drafting a 308 Ferrari. Again, long time ago. Have slowed down a bit in my old age.

I worked for Chrysler in the 70's and 440 Highway Patrol cars would easily exceed 140 mph. They would flat walk away from a helicopter.

 

[33IMP]

3.55 is roughly 10% lower (higher numerically), so I would think 3.55's would drop theoretical top speed about 10% from 3.23's. I.e., low 130's with 3.55. Am I miscalculating?

BTW, I have estimated the actual top speed of Dad's hemi (now mine) at just over 140 with 3.23 gears. How close that is, don't know. There are formulas, but it's hard to accurately figure torque convertor slip and tire growth, and just a small percentage difference can easily be worth several mph. Anyway, it has 4.10 gears now, so much lower top speed. I did once see 6100 rpm in my 65 340 Barracuda, 4-speed, 3.23 gears while drafting a 308 Ferrari. Again, long time ago. Have slowed down a bit in my old age.

Well, I was comparing a stick shift hemi with 6000 rpm power (questionable) and 3.23 gears, to a 5500 rpm hemi (probably closer to truth) in an automatic car, with some torque converter slip, and 3.55 gears, and tires a little shorter and wider than stock.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

I worked for Chrysler in the 70's and 440 Highway Patrol cars would easily exceed 140 mph. They would flat walk away from a helicopter.

They probably had - what - 2.76 gears? I knew some Ga. State Patrol officers back in the mid-1970's who claimed their smog 460 Fords would do 160. I was more than a bit skeptical of that claim. Thought it was funny, though, to hear these law officers bench racing just like any hot rodders I ever knew.

 

[shittyslant6]

Man, that reminds me of a story my dad told me.

Growing up, his family had two cars, a VW bug and I think a ford station wagon.
The bug was his mom's daily driver and she got used to it. Full throttle all the time because it was a bug.
Well sometime after my dad moved out, his mom decided she had had enough of the bug and my dad took her car shopping.
They went to a chevy dealer and they ended up with a (I want to say 70') nova (probably around 1974-1975) leaving the dealer the mom drove the nova like the bug. full throttle full time. He said after like 7 seconds of full throttle he looked over and they were going 90. Fun times, probably never did that again but you never know.

 

[33IMP]

They probably had - what - 2.76 gears? I knew some Ga. State Patrol officers back in the mid-1970's who claimed their smog 460 Fords would do 160. I was more than a bit skeptical of that claim. Thought it was funny, though, to hear these law officers bench racing just like any hot rodders I ever knew.

Just calculated 140 mph. Assuming a smog Era 440 could reach rated peak horsepower of 225hp net, at 4400 rpm, the cop car would have to have 2.41s in the back.
Sorry, I don't believe a stock 8 to 1 (or less) 440 can pull a 2.41 gear in an aerodynamic brick to 140. I just don't. Maybe 120, given three or four minutes.

 

[33IMP]

They probably had - what - 2.76 gears? I knew some Ga. State Patrol officers back in the mid-1970's who claimed their smog 460 Fords would do 160. I was more than a bit skeptical of that claim. Thought it was funny, though, to hear these law officers bench racing just like any hot rodders I ever knew.

Maybe.... if you dropped that Ford out of a plane at 25,000 feet.

 

[shittyslant6]

Just calculated 140 mph. Assuming a smog Era 440 could reach rated peak horsepower of 225hp net, at 4400 rpm, the cop car would have to have 2.41s in the back.
Sorry, I don't believe a stock 8 to 1 (or less) 440 can pull a 2.41 gear in an aerodynamic brick to 140. I just don't. Maybe 120, given three or four minutes.

well I doubt that those troopers that claimed 160 were ever actually looking down at the speedometer. Like you said, they are bricks with terrible suspension so I'd imagine it would of been a handful. Likely 130, but probably felt like 160+ in those things.

 

[roccodart440]

Sorry, I don't believe anything that says a stock Daytona, hemi or otherwise, can hit 200. Just cause it's a little more aerodynamic? Unh-unh. Not enough power, too much gear, too short a tire. I MIGHT believe 150, but the hemi would need 200MORE horsepower to get to 200 from 150. It's not there, short of a Nascar 750hp race motor. The theoretical top speed of my A12 runner is UNDER 110mph. Rated peak horsepower in high gear is EIGHTY SEVEN mph (not 187).
If a STOCKER can do 200, how come a Nascar stocker took months to get to a 200 mph lap, and it was considered a HUGE milestone?
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet!" Abraham Lincoln.

I'd say the quoted power by topspeed was referencing NASCAR.

The case for not enough gear and possibly not enough power are the real culprits here for 200mph


A hemi charger Daytona with 3.23 gears is capable of 150mph@6300 RPM.

 

[shittyslant6]

well I doubt that those troopers that claimed 160 were ever actually looking down at the speedometer. Like you said, they are bricks with terrible suspension so I'd imagine it would of been a handful. Likely 130, but probably felt like 160+ in those things.

i've been 75 in my duster and that was downright terrifying.
no way in hell I was looking at the speedo. good thing my phone gps has speed memory.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Well, I was comparing a stick shift hemi with 6000 rpm power (questionable) and 3.23 gears, to a 5500 rpm hemi (probably closer to truth) in an automatic car, with some torque converter slip, and 3.55 gears, and tires a little shorter and wider than stock.

Well, this is all just for fun. But after Dad dropped a valve and kept driving his Charger for five miles, he gave it to me, with a valve head stuck in one piston, and a hole in one head. Picked up a pair of heads at the 1985 Mopar Nats, and rebuilt the motor, completely stock except for a .040 overbore. In the late 80's I took it to the strip. Street tires and 3.23 gears, it ran a best of 13.30's at 103, shifting at 6500. It was a full half a second slower shifting at 5500. I'm pretty sure it would hit 6500 in high gear, but I wouldn't want to hold it there for long with a its heavy stock rods and pistons. And I have not ever tried it myself.

PS: I saved the piston that had the valve head stuck in it. You may notice that it's a 12.5 to one piston. Dad had a local dealership rebuild the motor about 1978, after one of the cam lobes wore flat. That's what they put in, claiming that was all that was available. Just in time for the low octane gas of the period. I went back to 10.25's that I got from Dick Landy.

 

[DFX 340 Duster]

Well, bench racing is just that, bench racing. It’s all imagined theory. The proof is in the running. What we need is two different Hemi Daytonas, one auto and one manual, to get out on the highway and do maximum speed runs. I would do it today but I don’t have a Hemi Daytona or Hemi Superbird.

 

[33IMP]

I'd say the quoted power by topspeed was referencing NASCAR.

The case for not enough gear and possibly not enough power are the real culprits here for 200mph


A hemi charger Daytona with 3.23 gears is capable of 150mph@6300 RPM.

Agreed, but people mistake a Nascar STOCKER for "stock". Not quite the same thing.
It's the Daytona/Superbird owners that should know better that perpetuate that b.s.

 

[diymirage]

Well, bench racing is just that, bench racing. It’s all imagined theory. The proof is in the running. What we need is two different Hemi Daytonas, one auto and one manual, to get out on the highway and do maximum speed runs. I would do it today but I don’t have a Hemi Daytona or Hemi Superbird.

Paging @dadsbee

We need a ride

 

[Ironracer]

My buddy, a Mopar Maniac, was a City Garage Mechanic. Temple Terrace PD used to bring in their cars and requested he Do the tune on em... he'd get them going faster than stock..

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Well, bench racing is just that, bench racing. It’s all imagined theory. The proof is in the running. What we need is two different Hemi Daytonas, one auto and one manual, to get out on the highway and do maximum speed runs. I would do it today but I don’t have a Hemi Daytona or Hemi Superbird.

No idea what its top speed was, but Dad tried racing his 440-powered 62 Dodge convertible against a Daytona or Superbird on I-16 just south of Macon, GA, from about 110 mph on up. He got smoked pretty badly, but that 62 was probably one of the more un-aerodynamic cars ever made, at least in modern times.

I remember an old Studebaker ad from 1963, which compared the tops speeds of two factory supercharged Studes - one a Lark, the other a Hawk. The Lark was timed at 132, the Hawk at 140. Same motor in both. Difference in top speed was strictly aero.