Fast ratio pitman and idler arms

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No first hand exp but will it be on a manual or power steering (PS) car?
Manual will make steering effort greater. PS probably just quicker.
 
On an A-body they’re not compatible with pretty much any header currently available
 
Do you know what ration you have now? 23 or 16 (approximate numbers)

Also do you know how much the arms decrease the ratio?

Also what width tire?

SB or BB?

I have 205s with a 23 to one manual steering, standard idlers, and I can palm steer at slow speeds but have to arm over arm if sitting still or going into a parking space. While driving there is now particular effort!

I imagine 16 to one would be about 30% more effort.
 
70Duster340 said:
Has anyone here used the quick ratio idler and pitman arms? How did they work out for you?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I don't think that anyone has ever bought them.

:poke:
I'm just messing with you. I see people asking extremely obvious questions and wonder....
You could do a search and quickly get all the information that you need. Years of experience right away rather than to post a new topic and wait for responses.
It is okay, many others have done the same thing but the search function here is a great tool that should be utilized.
I have these F/R arms in a '70 Charger. I also have a Firm Feel Stage 3 steering box. Steering effort is really heavy. The F/R arms do make the steering ratio quicker but at the same time, it makes it harder to steer even with the proper pump. When the engine is off, it cannot be steered by my Wife unless the car is moving. I had to push the car into my shop when I burned a wire in the dash and she couldn't steer the car sitting still. Granted, this relates to a B body so an A body will surely be a tighter fit.
Regardless...
The F/R arms main issue is clearance to the exhaust pipes. In your topic search, look for responses that address that.
 
70Duster340 said:
It's on a manual steering car. Sorry, my bad. Forget to include that important piece of information.
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Dana67Dart said:
Do you know what ration you have now? 23 or 16 (approximate numbers)

Also do you know how much the arms decrease the ratio?

Also what width tire?

SB or BB?

I have 205s with a 23 to one manual steering, standard idlers, and I can palm steer at slow speeds but have to arm over arm if sitting still or going into a parking space. While driving there is now particular effort!

I imagine 16 to one would be about 30% more effort.
Click to expand...

The fast ratio pitman and idler arms are meant for power steering boxes, although they can be used with manual boxes. The power steering boxes have a 16:1 ratio normally, with the fast ratio arms the effective ratio becomes ~12:1.

So, I don’t see any reason to use them with a manual box. The standard ratio manual steering box is 24:1, the fast ratio arms would basically make it a 16:1 ratio. But, you can just buy a fast ratio manual steering box that already has a 16:1 ratio, without adding any clearance issues. As for using the fast ratio arms on a 16:1 manual box, I don’t think that would be a good idea. The resulting 12:1 ratio would make the car very difficult to steer at low speeds. I run a 16:1 fast ratio manual box, and while I like it and don’t have any plans to change it, I don’t think a 12:1 manual box would be workable for most folks.
 
Small rant to follow...

Kern Dog said:
the search function here is a great tool that should be utilized
Click to expand...
I agree that the search function is a good thing BUT I personally do not find the Search Function on this site to be very good (sorry Forum organizers) maybe it is me.

My biggest beef is when I'm looking for a particular thread I end up with hundreds of individual posts from that thread and others. If I know enough info about a thread to search for it I only need to find the thread, from there I can find the post in the thread. (hope that makes sense)

Lastly..

Many times I search for info don't find it for whatever reason, so I end up posting what turns out to be info already covered.

Just my 2 cents.... now back to the thread at hand...
 
my personal experience with bigish or low-profile tires on my 66 cuda, was that the welds on the steering box bracket on the k-member broke. Now whether that was an anomaly due to poor factory welds, I could not determine.
On the other hand, I had fast ratio PS on my 70 AAR, and I thought it was the slickest part of the whole AAR package. It gave very good road feel, much better than the regular old Chrysler PS feel.
 
I agree with what Dana67Dart said. I tried searches with other topics, just to see more threads than what I could sift through. None seemed to answer my question, so I posted.
Sorry about that. Just trying to get an answer, as I thought that was the purpose of the forum.
 
OK , here’s my experience. First, I have a Firm Feel stage 2or 3 power steering box. (Police box level I can check which one.) I also run the Imperial length pitman arm from Firm Feel. As far as exhaust goes, I have home made headers that do clear. I’ve now run these for close to 10 years.

This gives me 12:1 ratio. I absolutely love this set up!!! Also with bigger sway bars. It’s great to be able to make what I sometimes call “Porsche lane changes.” I have run a little SCCA autocross and other amateur autoX for fun ...quit because I can’t afford to eat up tires that fast!!

Here I give credit to Rick Ehrenberg and his road race “Green Brick” Valiant articles. I run only the long pitman. Save your $ and skip the idler. (As I’m told the Trans Am cars did!)

Depending on tires and such this can give you a shorter turn radius as well.

Personally I’d give up some manual box driving ease for a little quicker ratio, but that’s a very personal choice.
 
midnight340 said:
OK , here’s my experience. First, I have a Firm Feel stage 2or 3 power steering box. (Police box level I can check which one.) I also run the Imperial length pitman arm from Firm Feel. As far as exhaust goes, I have home made headers that do clear. I’ve now run these for close to 10 years.

This gives me 12:1 ratio. I absolutely love this set up!!! Also with bigger sway bars. It’s great to be able to make what I sometimes call “Porsche lane changes.” I have run a little SCCA autocross and other amateur autoX for fun ...quit because I can’t afford to eat up tires that fast!!

Here I give credit to Rick Ehrenberg and his road race “Green Brick” Valiant articles. I run only the long pitman. Save your $ and skip the idler. (As I’m told the Trans Am cars did!)

Depending on tires and such this can give you a shorter turn radius as well.

Personally I’d give up some manual box driving ease for a little quicker ratio, but that’s a very personal choice.
Click to expand...

With a power steering box the faster ratio would be nice. The Borgeson steering box uses a 14:1 ratio, and people seem to like that swap.

The other way to get the faster ratio would be a steering quickener. That’s what the Hotchkiss Challenger uses. A 1.5:1 steering quickener installed into the steering shaft. That also gives a 12:1 final ratio, which is mentioned in a couple of the articles. Here’s a quickener

Howe Racing 5225 Basic Steering Quickener, 1.5:1, 3/4 Inch 36-Spline

The issue with the longer steering arms on an A-body is really clearance. Not everyone has custom headers or wants to run manifolds, and that makes the longer arms a problem.

On my car I don’t mind the 16:1 fast ratio manual steering, even with 275/35/18’s and +6.5* of caster. But I don’t think 12:1 would be a good idea with a manual box.
 
72bluNblu said:
With a power steering box the faster ratio would be nice. The Borgeson steering box uses a 14:1 ratio, and people seem to like that swap.

The other way to get the faster ratio would be a steering quickener. That’s what the Hotchkiss Challenger uses. A 1.5:1 steering quickener installed into the steering shaft. That also gives a 12:1 final ratio, which is mentioned in a couple of the articles. Here’s a quickener

Howe Racing 5225 Basic Steering Quickener, 1.5:1, 3/4 Inch 36-Spline

The issue with the longer steering arms on an A-body is really clearance. Not everyone has custom headers or wants to run manifolds, and that makes the longer arms a problem.

On my car I don’t mind the 16:1 fast ratio manual steering, even with 275/35/18’s and +6.5* of caster. But I don’t think 12:1 would be a good idea with a manual box.
Click to expand...
that "quickener" sounds intriguing. $99 + free shipping makes it enticing. How hard would it be to retrofit to a mopar?
 
72bluNblu said:
With a power steering box the faster ratio would be nice. The Borgeson steering box uses a 14:1 ratio, and people seem to like that swap.

The other way to get the faster ratio would be a steering quickener. That’s what the Hotchkiss Challenger uses. A 1.5:1 steering quickener installed into the steering shaft. That also gives a 12:1 final ratio, which is mentioned in a couple of the articles. Here’s a quickener

Howe Racing 5225 Basic Steering Quickener, 1.5:1, 3/4 Inch 36-Spline

The issue with the longer steering arms on an A-body is really clearance. Not everyone has custom headers or wants to run manifolds, and that makes the longer arms a problem.

On my car I don’t mind the 16:1 fast ratio manual steering, even with 275/35/18’s and +6.5* of caster. But I don’t think 12:1 would be a good idea with a manual box.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the advice. I have the 24:1 steering. I would like to quicken that a bit. Adding power steering seems like a lengthy parts search. Since I don't know how much the parts will cost, I am a bit reluctant to go that route.
I assume this is what I need:
Power steering gear unit
Power steering pump
Hydraulic hoses
Power steering column
Brackets
Damper pulley
Belt
I've already done a search here for those parts. Some are available, and some (like the power steering column) I have not been fortunate enough to locate. Just sounds like a lot of time and money. That's why I thought that the quick ratio pitman arm was a possibility. It would quicken the steering ratio a bit, and be less expensive and time consuming. But how do I know if it will fit? Do I just measure the shaft on the manual steering box?
 
If you get one from Firm Feel for your model it will fit the shaft in the box. The problem is the longer swing and whether you have clearance for that.
 
midnight340 said:
If you get one from Firm Feel for your model it will fit the shaft in the box. The problem is the longer swing and whether you have clearance for that.
Click to expand...
Well, I don't have any headers, just the hi-po manifolds. How do I know if I have the clearance?
Is this pitman arm the one manufactured by Proforged?
 
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