fiber vs sintered clutches - best ATF for both?

[chorty55]

I have a unique project, and it's unknown if the gearbox has fiber or sintered clutch packs. It has a torque converter, so i'd assume they might be sintered for a more on/off, and possibly a fluid that allows minimal slipping? Type F from ford, if i'm understanding the nomenclature of the transmission fluid line.

The application is heavy equipment, from the 1960's. What came out is nice cherry red, like dexron3 (probably is). I have no manual, and i'm trying to fluid match the era of machine.

Depending if a gearbox has fiber or sintered disks, which oil would satisfy both? I think in the 1960's whale oil was cut out, and that might of been what was used in ATF-A and/or DexronII?

If it makes a difference, it's one of those shuttle shifts, it has forward and reverse, but you can choose the 3 speeds. Yes, reverse in high gear is possible. Given how sloppy the steering is, it's preferred to drive down the road 'reverse'.

The accessory drive turns a torque converter output shaft to the actual 3 speed transmission, along with 3 hydraulic pumps. 1 for loader assembly, 1 to pressurize the clutch pack valve, and a 3rd to circulate the oil to/from the cooler.

the transmission has the 3 gear ratios and forward/reverse shuttle, along with a rear axle disengagement for 2WD.

 

[Professor Fate]

Courtesy of Yesterdaystractors.com, here is what is listed for a 1964 Hough H50: SAE 10 weight for hydraulic, Type A automatic transmission fluid for the transmission.
DexronII and DexronIII are the current equivalents.

 

[chorty55]

Courtesy of Yesterdaystractors.com, here is what is listed for a 1964 Hough H50: SAE 10 weight for hydraulic, Type A automatic transmission fluid for the transmission.
DexronII and DexronIII are the current equivalents.

i feel dumb. i've had hits across that site but i guess it was lack of keywords somehow.
thanks. Unfortunate it's Type A

 

[S'cuder]

There are still a few companies selling Type A. It's pretty basic stuff. If there's no one local to you, shipping could get expensive.
What is the fluid capacity of the unit?

CAM2 TYPE A ATF - CAM2

 

[chorty55]

"Type A is an economical fluid and is recommended for use in older transmissions where leakage and consumption may be a problem. "

SOLD!

but it'll eat 7-9 gallons before hoses and filters, and leaks.

 

[S'cuder]

Dexron ll and lll are decent substitutes, but GM stopped licensing anything with those names several years ago. But ATF is sold still that will be labeled "compatible with Dexron ll and Mercon." It will be more widely available than Type A. You might be able to pick up 5 gallon pails at a local farm store like TSC.

 

[chorty55]

i have buckets of dexron, i wasn't sure if it would cause problems with the clutches, given my near zero knowledge of type A applications, and what's actually used for clutches.

I ended up with a nice GMC 3500 SRW 4xs4 for near nothing because someone used the wrong gearlube and it wiped the carbon fiber off the synchro's in a nv4500. I drove it like that for a bit, it was annoying to float every gear.

But, that's a little childs gearbox that's readily available. Be a shame to spoil the gearbox in this machine that #1, probably isn't another one in the United States, and #2, there's no parts available anymore for it. Reason i'm relocating the hydraulic pump, there's one gear i can't find that's totally stripped out. And i don't want to pull a 2000 pound gearbox that's 4 feet tall, 3 feet wide, 2 feet deep,

I didn't see a lift for something like that at harbor freight.

I dropped the bubble cover for the filter housing, and holy god, it's nearly 1" thick cast iron and weighs maybe 35 pounds, and it's not straight up and down to drop/unthread, it's lateral on the front on the case.

I'm not looking to fight that back in there. I'll be needing to eat my wheaties that morning before assembly.

 

[S'cuder]

I don't blame you for being hesitant about not going away from the superceded product. It's not like Type A can't be had. It'll just take some work to track it down. You're the only one who can decide what to use, and you have to be comfortable with it.

Forty years ago I was a brand new oil salesman. A older fella called the office looking for oil for his Hupmobile that was built in the 19-teens. I got ahold of the tech folks, and they said what he wanted was AW 100 hydraulic oil. That was pretty close to what grade 30 motor oil was 70 years earlier. Just base stock with some anti-wear, anti-foam, and anti-rust additives. It did what it was supposed to. Well the old fella couldn't believe that if it wasn't sold as motor oil, it couldn't work, so he passed on it. I ran into him a couple years later. I don't remember what he ended up going with, but it worked out and he was happy. That story isn't supposed to mean anything or impart a lesson. I just like it.

 

[transman]

I have a unique project, and it's unknown if the gearbox has fiber or sintered clutch packs. It has a torque converter, so i'd assume they might be sintered for a more on/off, and possibly a fluid that allows minimal slipping? Type F from ford, if i'm understanding the nomenclature of the transmission fluid line.

The application is heavy equipment, from the 1960's. What came out is nice cherry red, like dexron3 (probably is). I have no manual, and i'm trying to fluid match the era of machine.

Depending if a gearbox has fiber or sintered disks, which oil would satisfy both? I think in the 1960's whale oil was cut out, and that might of been what was used in ATF-A and/or DexronII?

If it makes a difference, it's one of those shuttle shifts, it has forward and reverse, but you can choose the 3 speeds. Yes, reverse in high gear is possible. Given how sloppy the steering is, it's preferred to drive down the road 'reverse'.

The accessory drive turns a torque converter output shaft to the actual 3 speed transmission, along with 3 hydraulic pumps. 1 for loader assembly, 1 to pressurize the clutch pack valve, and a 3rd to circulate the oil to/from the cooler.

the transmission has the 3 gear ratios and forward/reverse shuttle, along with a rear axle disengagement for 2WD.

Marine transmissions in the past used bronze sintered plates. Might be another source for the oil, but lots of good suggestions here. Good luck. I'm not sure which transmission, but as I recall an early 60's Ford transmission also used the sintered plates.

 

[chorty55]

Yeah, all these part #'s of the exploded views of the gearbox have part #'s that go nowhere. The fact it worked before i parked it, i'm not really wanting to disassemble, destroy gaskets and who knows what else i probably can't get, just to find out what kind of clutches it has.

So, dex3 is common, and if it truly is a Type-A replacement, i'm gonna gamble that wagon ride.

 

[S'cuder]

You should be OK with the ATF. GM has called every Dexron backwards compatible, so there should be nothing in it that would attack clutches. Theoretically, Dexron VI would work and give you a significant increase in viscosity index.

Unlike the NV 4500, which specc'd a specific lube for the carbon fiber synchros. As I remember, we didn't make an suitable equivalent, so we just said to use Mopar/GM/OEM lube.

It's funny, I used to drive by the New Process-New Venture plant near Syracuse several times a month for work. The place closed when the union voted to give up their jobs rather than to take a pay hike. I know it sounds crazy, but the plant had been losing money a long time. The wage concessions were supposed to help save it. The workers didn't believe it could be saved, so their vote reflected the fact that their unemployment benefits would be based on the higher wage.

 

[chorty55]

nope. staying with thicker dex3. too much drippy drippy.