Front Rubbing - Tires, Suspension or Wheels?

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rymanrph

rymanrph

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My front tires are rubbing pretty badly up front. I know that the driver side is worse because of the worn ball joints, but at full lock the tires are jammed into the front of the fenders.

I'm running 215/65/15 Cooper Cobras on what I believe are 15x7 Centerline Convo Pro wheels (3.375 back space?). They were on the vehicle when I purchased it.

If my balls joints were new, would this wheel/tire combo still cause me issues?

I've raised the suspension in the front since this photo was taken and they still rub.

8DF85F1C-F9E6-4FE3-82CE-9A16C6D8F998_zpsgxl5p60w.jpg
 
What kind of car?

Edit- I see it's a barracuda now. Picture didn't show up on my computer at first.
 
Hi Ryan,

How tall are your tires? Back in the day it was not uncommon to see the bottom front corner of the fender trimmed a bit for more tire clearance. There is not much room in that area to accommodate tires much bigger than OE. I measured mine for a comparison, the tires are 25 inches tall and I have a bit more than 2 inches of clearance at the bottom front area without engine installed. Tire size is P 215/70R 14.

Russ
 
Try to lower the front end an inch and see if you still have issues.

I had the same problem but it only occurred when the fender lifted...like when backing down a hill and turning. When the front end was level (ride height) or when driving I didn't have the issue.

I trimmed an inch of the front of the wheel well on the fenders. Since I have 18" wheels I didn't have a choice.

your tires are at the max diameter I would say and your rims may not be back spaced correctly.

Good luck and hope you don't damage your fender like i did. It pulled in when the tire caught it backing down my driveway.
 
momoparman said:
I had the same problem but it only occurred when the fender lifted...like when backing down a hill and turning. When the front end was level (ride height) or when driving I didn't have the issue.

Good luck and hope you don't damage your fender like i did. It pulled in when the tire caught it backing down my driveway.
Click to expand...

Yeah... already did that. You might be able to tell in the picture above.

I thought it may be because the front end was too low, so I adjusted it up and even sitting level in the driveway they touch at full lock.

These tires are practically brand new and I want 17s, so I may just sell this set and get what I want. Either way I need to fix the ball joints.
 
Do you have large bolt pattern brakes or stock? If you have swapped to LBP then the front track of the car has widened, pushing the tires and wheels out to the fenders. You may need to more positive offset wheel. I had these issuers with my Dart and ended up buying a set of custom wheels.
 
I do have the larger bolt pattern disc brakes up front. It sounds more and more like I just need to go ahead and swap to a new set. I know I have problems in the rear as well.
 
If anyone has any input on wheel/tire sizes, I could use some help filling in the blanks.

For the front I'm thinking a 17x8 with a 245/45, but what should my wheel back spacing be? 5.0, 5.5, something else?

For the rear, I am even less sure what I need. I think I'd like to stagger the sizes and use an 18 in the rear, but the width, backspacing and tire sizes I'm not so sure about. I have relocated springs, but stock tubs and I definitely want it to sit much lower than it does in the above picture.

Could I run a 275/35/18 on a 18x9.5? If so, I have an A body 8.75, so what backspacing would be appropriate? Is a 275 too wide? I know the 295s I have now are.
 
Front should be 17X7 with 225x45x17's 5" or 5.5" bs. Depends on your brake set up. Check the tire manufacturers web sites so you can get the dimensions for the tires...they're not all made the same so a 225 x 17 can be shorter or taller than the standard.

Rear will be 17 or 18 x 8" with 255 x 45 max with 5.5" bs. That will set the rim right in the middle of the wheel well.

Anything wider and you wont be able to stuff it under the wheel wells.

I would do some measuring yourself before you buy anything and talk to whomever you are buying them from so you get the best info before you pop.

I learned the hard way....
 
momoparman said:
Front should be 17X7 with 225x45x17's 5" or 5.5" bs. Depends on your brake set up. Check the tire manufacturers web sites so you can get the dimensions for the tires...they're not all made the same so a 225 x 17 can be shorter or taller than the standard.

Rear will be 17 or 18 x 8" with 255 x 45 max with 5.5" bs. That will set the rim right in the middle of the wheel well.

Anything wider and you wont be able to stuff it under the wheel wells.

I would do some measuring yourself before you buy anything and talk to whomever you are buying them from so you get the best info before you pop.

I learned the hard way....
Click to expand...

I'm running the newer 5x4.5 pattern discs, but I could see upgrading to something nicer when I upgrade my K member (probably way down the road).

I'm looking at Torque Thrust II wheels and they aren't offered that I can see in a 17x7 with a 5.0 or 5.5 bs. The most I see is 4.75.

I'm not looking to slam my car like yours, but would I still need to go down to a 255 to keep from rubbing on the tub? I just want to take advantage of the spring offset.
 
rymanrph said:
I'm running the newer 5x4.5 pattern discs, but I could see upgrading to something nicer when I upgrade my K member (probably way down the road).

I'm looking at Torque Thrust II wheels and they aren't offered that I can see in a 17x7 with a 5.0 or 5.5 bs. The most I see is 4.75.

I'm not looking to slam my car like yours, but would I still need to go down to a 255 to keep from rubbing on the tub? I just want to take advantage of the spring offset.
Click to expand...

You need to measure yourself to determine what works best for your setup.

My car is not slammed when I drive it so yes if you don't want to rub then you can only go so far. I don't know how much room you pick up by offsetting the spring but that would need to be considered when determining backspace.

I'm assuming that you want to drop the car back down so the tire sits inside the wheel well a bit.

Here is a link to instructions on how to measure it yourself. IF your buying from a local wheel shop then they can do that for you.

http://www.vintagewheelworks.com/tech-offset.php

17x7 with 4.75 would probably work up front...it's 5" on 8" wheel and you can run 8" up front if you want.
 
In the front with a 17" wheel you can go up to about 5.6" of backspace. With that amount of backspace you should be able to fit a 255, a 245/45/17 won't be a problem at all.

On an A body you can fit a 275 wide tire in the front, with 73+ BBP disks it requires a little over 6" of backspace on a 9" wide rim to be safe. That requires an 18" diameter rim though, because most 17" rims hit the outer tie rod around 5.6" of backspace.

The issue with your current wheels rubbing is the backspace on the wheels. 3.375" of backspace isn't nearly enough. I have 225/60/15's on my Duster at the moment, with 4.25" of backspace on 15x7's. I have no rubbing issues whatsoever. I will soon have 255/40/18's or 275/35/18's on 18x9" rims up front with 6.4" backspace. It'll have 13" Dr Diff rotors though, so that's an extra 3/16" on the track width, so effective backspace compared to a factory BBP disk car will be about 6.2".

I know both tires will fit, I just have to decide how much tire my arms can handle with the 16:1 manual steering box. :D

In the back with a stock A body rear and a spring offset you should be able to fit 275's without issue. Again, you'll need a 9" or 9.5" wide wheel. For backspace you'll need 4.75" to 5", 5" for sure on a 9.5" wide wheel. I wouldn't go more than 5.25" of backspace in the rear with the stock rear end, you'd probably need a small spacer at that point. 17 or 18" diameter doesn't matter except for tire selection, the springs and the quarters are all you have to worry about.
 
I believe my wheels are 17x7 up front, but its possible they're 17x8s. If that's the case, then it is a 4.5" bs.
 
Like I said...I would take the measurements first then figure out what you want to use for wheels. You will get bewildered by all the opinions that this thread will generate....I can't imagine a 275 x 18 on the front of one of our cars but someone said it can be done so who do you believe? It may work! :supz: Also beware of what works for a dart/duster/scamp/etc may not work on a barracuda.

Measure twice and buy them once..
 
I ordered new upper ball joints (and a socket) and then I contacted my wheel/tire store. They said that they can help measure everything correctly to make sure I get exactly what I need. At least that way, I have someone to blame if they don't fit haha.
 
momoparman said:
Like I said...I would take the measurements first then figure out what you want to use for wheels. You will get bewildered by all the opinions that this thread will generate....I can't imagine a 275 x 18 on the front of one of our cars but someone said it can be done so who do you believe? It may work! :supz: Also beware of what works for a dart/duster/scamp/etc may not work on a barracuda.

Measure twice and buy them once..
Click to expand...

72BBSwinger runs 275/35/18's on his Dart, 18x9 with ~6" backspace. No rubbing.

I've also seen a 275/40/17 on a 17x9 with 6" of backspace run on a Duster, although that one rubbed slightly on the fenders. And most rim designs won't clear the ball joints at the backspace.

The A-body Barracuda has more room up front to the fender because of the fender design than the Dart does, so I don't think a 275 will be a problem as long as the backspace is a little more than 6".

I have a spreadsheet I made up of a lot of the rim/tire combo's that have been posted here and elsewhere on the internet. I know of several folks that have 275's up front with no claimed issues. Most don't run that wide, but I also know of quite a few folks that run narrower tires, but with offsets such that they either sit further out, or further in, than those running the 275's. Which also tells me the 275's will fit with the right backspacing.

For example, the 225/60/15's on my Duster at the moment. They sit on a 15x7" rim with 4.25" backspace. Which means they will have the exact same fender clearance as a 275/35/18 on an 18x9 with 6.2" backspace. Since 72BBswinger also ran his 275/35/18's with as much as 6.5" backspace without frame interference, I know that there should also be PLENTY of room to the frame.

Obviously, not all of these cars left the factory with identical tolerances, so there's always some risks when you're maximizing sizes.
 
Your 215s are 26" tall. Centerline only lists 3-3/8" backspacing for the 15x7, so probably correct. With a 15 the max backspace you can run is 4.5" to clear the UCA. 26" tall on an A-body will not clear the front edge of the fender unless it is tucked enough to miss it on the turn in. 215/65 might work with more backspacing. I ran a 17x8 with 5.5" backspacing on my '68 Barracuda with '75 disc brake spindles and Cordoba rotors. I had to run the "short" ball joint to clear the wheel. With a 245/45-17 everything cleared. The 245/45-17 is listed at 25.7" tall and it BARELY cleared the fender at the front edge. With a little slop in the strut rods AND the wheel turned it occasionally would just rub the edge of the fender when backing out of the driveway.
 
A tire over 26 inches tall will fit on the front of an a body. (Maybe not a barracuda)
Cause I had 225-70-15 on 15x7 wheels with 4 1/4 inch backspace on the front of my 73 340 Duster with no rubbing and that is a 27.5 inch tall tire that looked great with the 275-60-15s on the same spec wheel out back.
 
72bluNblu said:
72BBSwinger runs 275/35/18's on his Dart, 18x9 with ~6" backspace. No rubbing.

I've also seen a 275/40/17 on a 17x9 with 6" of backspace run on a Duster, although that one rubbed slightly on the fenders. And most rim designs won't clear the ball joints at the backspace.

The A-body Barracuda has more room up front to the fender because of the fender design than the Dart does, so I don't think a 275 will be a problem as long as the backspace is a little more than 6".

I have a spreadsheet I made up of a lot of the rim/tire combo's that have been posted here and elsewhere on the internet. I know of several folks that have 275's up front with no claimed issues. Most don't run that wide, but I also know of quite a few folks that run narrower tires, but with offsets such that they either sit further out, or further in, than those running the 275's. Which also tells me the 275's will fit with the right backspacing.

For example, the 225/60/15's on my Duster at the moment. They sit on a 15x7" rim with 4.25" backspace. Which means they will have the exact same fender clearance as a 275/35/18 on an 18x9 with 6.2" backspace. Since 72BBswinger also ran his 275/35/18's with as much as 6.5" backspace without frame interference, I know that there should also be PLENTY of room to the frame.

Obviously, not all of these cars left the factory with identical tolerances, so there's always some risks when you're maximizing sizes.
Click to expand...

Show me a barracuda with 275 wide tires up front and I will believe.
 
Here is a shot of 255 x 45 x 18's on 8" rim with 5.5" bs on my cuda with a 4-link so no interference from leaf springs.

You can see that the back side of the tire is very close (1/4") to the inside edge of the wheel well. On the out side of the wheel well there is maybe 1/2" clearance and that's as far as I would go without risking tire rub. Any rim wider than 8" on my car rubs when I lower it. Remember that an 8" rim is really 9" wide, a 9 is 10" etc.....

This pic is with my suspension unloaded. The tops of the wheel wells are narrower so it's even tighter the lower you drop your wheel wells over your wheels.

Getting help from the tire pro's picking out what will fit your specific car will make life a lot easier.
 

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momoparman said:
Show me a barracuda with 275 wide tires up front and I will believe.
Click to expand...

autoxcuda's car with a 275/40/17

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http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970353024&postcount=6

That said, he's modified the wheel opening on his fender a bit at the lower front corner, and rolled and slightly stretched the lip on the fender. The lower front corner mod is a barracuda thing for a taller tire, that wheel opening tapers in too much. Duster is similar, but not as pronounced.

At any rate, a 275 front tire on a Barracuda. The modifications he needed are all listed on that post. That's with a 17x8", with a 9" wide rim the backspace would be about 6". I still think a little more backspace would be better, the earlier cars also don't have steering stops like the later cars do, so the later cars have a bit more room for backspace without frame interference because the turning input is a little more limited.
 
Those look closer to a 245 or a 9" wide tire.....let me see the sidewall showing 275.

What size rims are on that car?

I want to believe but i need real conclusive proof.
 
momoparman said:
Those look closer to a 245 or a 9" wide tire.....let me see the sidewall showing 275.

What size rims are on that car?

I want to believe but i need real conclusive proof.
Click to expand...

You'll have to ask Steve, autoxcuda, for "proof", if it exists. The thread says the rims are 17x8's with 5.5" of backspace, so if the tires look a bit small its probably because they're a little squeezed on those rims, 275's should be on a 9" rim.

If all goes well, I'll have a set of 275/35/18's on the front of my '74 Duster next week though. I know, not a barracuda. But I'll be able to provide measurements firsthand at that point.
 
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