Full Emissions hotwire auto hemi wiring harness

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Boony405hp

Boony405hp

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Hey lads,

ODD request, but has anyone ordered or know someone who has done a conversion and run the Hemi wiring harness that hotwireauto sell that comes with the full EMISSION pack?

Perhaps somewhere like California might have to adhere to the same rules?

I only ask this as I found out in my state in Australia their rule is, whatever year engine the car comes out of the emissions must meet that year! Not real happy about it and think it's a crock, but I'd would like to speak to someone whos run it or has one installed.

Cheers, Dave.
 
Boony,

The better question is, do they actually inspect the car? The same is true in several states in the US but if the car is over a certain age you are not required to have a biennial smog inspection as a result you can pretty much do whatever you'd like.

That being said, the hotwire harness with the full emissions pack should work. Of course you'd need to add the appropriate catalytic converters and the evaporative controls on the gas tank. That would probably be the hardest part.

I'd contact hotwire directly for your specific quesitons.

Best of Luck.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Boony405hp said:
Hey lads,

ODD request, but has anyone ordered or know someone who has done a conversion and run the Hemi wiring harness that hotwireauto sell that comes with the full EMISSION pack?

Perhaps somewhere like California might have to adhere to the same rules?

I only ask this as I found out in my state in Australia their rule is, whatever year engine the car comes out of the emissions must meet that year! Not real happy about it and think it's a crock, but I'd would like to speak to someone whos run it or has one installed.

Cheers, Dave.
Click to expand...

In theory Ca has those same Australia rules. The newer engine must have all the emissions and your technically not suppose to use an older engine than the model year.(i'm blanking on the cut off year. I think its somewhere in the 1950s).

However, there are no inspections on cars that are 1974 or 1975 and older. So no one with a classic car really abides by those rules.
 
Magnumdust, not to get into a big debate, but where did you come up with that first paragraph of info? I forget the cutoff year also (around '74 or so), but it's my understanding that prior to the cutoff, the car is exempt from all smog restrictions, period. No biennial testing and no testing at exchange of ownership. It's all based on the YM of the body and you can put any year engine, up or down that you want. Swap in a diesel too if you want...
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
Magnumdust, not to get into a big debate, but where did you come up with that first paragraph of info? I forget the cutoff year also (around '74 or so), but it's my understanding that prior to the cutoff, the car is exempt from all smog restrictions, period. No biennial testing and no testing at exchange of ownership. It's all based on the YM of the body and you can put any year engine, up or down that you want. Swap in a diesel too if you want...
Click to expand...

I can't promise anything, given that anything I post puts some people in a fit.

Anyhow, from this Novak(engine swap specialty company)
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/emissions.htm

"We’ve read that California law does exempt 1973 and earlier vehicles from emissions regulations. The CARB web site, however, mentions that vehicles since 1967 are not exempted. Again, do your research."

Technically you are right that there is no biannual testing or testing at the exchange of ownership. However, i believe that post 67' you could in theory run into a A-hole cop who could ticket your vehicle for non-compliance and force you to go through the inspection process.

I've never heard of it happening, and as i said in that earlier post. No one follows that guideline. I nearly sold my car to a cop a couple yrs ago and i flat out told him it had a 90s truck engine. He didn't seem to care one way or the other.
 
Magnumdust, thanks for the link. I read some of it, but as with many articles on the web and even in magazines, there's misinformation and aspects that aren't fully explained for the individuals who really need the info.

It used to be '65 and down were totally exempt, period. Then an assemblyman got a bill passed that would exempt each model year upon their 20th birthday (or was it 30?). I was overjoyed when my '69 Cuda turned 20 (or 30?) years old. The next hurdle I was looking forward to would have been my '78 Lil Red Express having it's special birthday, but the bill got overturned, locking in the cutoff at around '74. I have since sold my Lil Red, so I'm a happy camper with my Cuda.

To clarify one thing though, you can do whatever you want with an exempt car. However, you can still perform a transplant on a car past the cutoff, but the engine has to be newer, not older. It would also have to go to a referee station for smog cert. and you'll have a lot of explaining to do there. :)

I must apologize for not remembering the years exactly for anyone who really needs the info. My memory is fading as I'm getting older, plus my car is exempt now, so I don't need to be concerned. I DO listen for changes though, but I haven't heard any in years.
 
The cutoff is 1975 thus if your car is a 75 model year or and earlier you are not required to have the biennial inspection. There was a bill before the legislature to raise it to 1980 but it died in committee.

I too have never heard of anyone with a pre '75 car being forced to have an inspection. That being said, beginning in '65 cars in California had rudimentary smog control devices, and removing them is both a state and federal law violation. It is a civil law, not criminal law though.

Smog laws do follow the motor so technically if you install a 2006 Hemi in a '65 Cuda you are technically required to keep and install all of the emission control devices. The irony is that by making it near impossible to install a late model motor in an earlier model car the government in effect causes more pollution.

For example, a late model computer controlled motor even without cats will be a lot cleaner than a 60s era motor with a carb.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
The irony is that by making it near impossible to install a late model motor in an earlier model car the government in effect causes more pollution.
Click to expand...

That is the headache of the whole system. It really wasn't designed with enough forward thought to realize that emissions systems would improve exponentially.
 
Joe Dokes said:
Boony,

The better question is, do they actually inspect the car? The same is true in several states in the US but if the car is over a certain age you are not required to have a biennial smog inspection as a result you can pretty much do whatever you'd like.

That being said, the hotwire harness with the full emissions pack should work. Of course you'd need to add the appropriate catalytic converters and the evaporative controls on the gas tank. That would probably be the hardest part.

I'd contact hotwire directly for your specific quesitons.

Best of Luck.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

An engineer has to sign off on it, from what I've read as long as it has all the appropriate emission equipment installed it will be fine, and then no actual emission measurement would be required as you have installed the factory system (providing the law hasn't changed from when it was issued in 2012).

I have cat's installed but I don't know what ones they are, the exhaust shop just put them on for me when I had the exhaust/extractors made and currently have the o2's in front of the cat's.

As for the gas tank I think all that would be required would be the vapor canister, pump etc (see diagram). I already have the EGR valve on the front of the engine.



Worst part is, they require the harness back if they need to add the emissions stuff. That's going to mean shipping both ways plus the cost of the emissions stuff. Not cool
 
Joe Dokes, that's WRONG about not being able to remove the smog devices on '65 up (through '75). They're EXEMPT now. Period. You can remove it and throw it away (or probably best to store it in case the laws change!) lol I'm putting a newer engine in my Cuda, with no smog equipment and it's totally legal, but if I wanted to put a '32 Ford flathead in it, I could because it's EXEMPT! No laws broken, civil or criminal.


Joe Dokes said:
The cutoff is 1975 thus if your car is a 75 model year or and earlier you are not required to have the biennial inspection. There was a bill before the legislature to raise it to 1980 but it died in committee.

I too have never heard of anyone with a pre '75 car being forced to have an inspection. That being said, beginning in '65 cars in California had rudimentary smog control devices, and removing them is both a state and federal law violation. It is a civil law, not criminal law though.

Smog laws do follow the motor so technically if you install a 2006 Hemi in a '65 Cuda you are technically required to keep and install all of the emission control devices. The irony is that by making it near impossible to install a late model motor in an earlier model car the government in effect causes more pollution.

For example, a late model computer controlled motor even without cats will be a lot cleaner than a 60s era motor with a carb.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...
 
Cuda,

Sorry um, no.

The car is merely exempt from the requirement of the biennial inspection and the inspection when transferring ownership.

Federal Law is quite clear the removal or tampering with smog control devices is illegal (again this is a tort, not a crime so you're not going to jail.)

Here is the relevant Federal Law that spells it out.

(1) Section 203(a)(3) (42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3)) is amended to read as follows:

'(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or

'(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use; or '

All that being said, the chances of anyone ever being fined or refused a renewal on their registration are nil.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes, c'mon man, you can't post info like that without disclosing the source where you got it. I still disagree with a lot of what you're saying about this, but I know there are federal laws against tampering or eliminating smog parts/systems for some year model cars. Also not sure how you claim it's a federal law, but only a tort, not a crime?

The federal laws I'm thinking of are a crime, punishable by fine or imprisonment or both. That scares the hell out of most muffler or repair shops that would consider alterations for a customer...
 
It's not a crime, it's a tort. Technically it's not a law it's a federal regulation but it has the power of law.

Thus, they "could" fine you or seize the car, but they can't throw you in jail.

I should have included a link, the above quote is from the EPA's website.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
It's not a crime, it's a tort. Technically it's not a law it's a federal regulation but it has the power of law.

Thus, they "could" fine you or seize the car, but they can't throw you in jail.

I should have included a link, the above quote is from the EPA's website.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
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Its also not really enforced on anything 75' and below. So nothing to really worry about if your new hemi does not have the emissions equipment.
 
OK, in my view you're still not making total sense about this. No matter though, I'm done. I don't care to search through EPA regs. for something so obvious: '75 down, go for it ! That's what I'm doing with my Cuda, whereas I'm being VERY CAREFUL with mods to my new Gen. Challenger...
 
I think we're basically both right, chances are the EPA and the State of California doesn't give a rat's *** about a few hot rodders with their pre '75 cars, but they could.

My issue with the regs is that they exists at all. One of the issues that I think we should all be concerned about from a philosophical standpoint is that although a rule is not enforced doesn't mean it won't be enforced in the future, or that the government won't enforce it simply to keep someone quiet. Yes, I'm a little paranoid, thanks for asking.

This is the kind of BS I'm talking about.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/feds-raid-nc-home-to-seize-land-rover-in-epa-emiss/

You're right '75 and down in California your pretty much golden.

You're also right, I think I've beaten this dead horse long enough. ;)

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
I think we're basically both right, chances are the EPA and the State of California doesn't give a rat's *** about a few hot rodders with their pre '75 cars, but they could.

My issue with the regs is that they exists at all. One of the issues that I think we should all be concerned about from a philosophical standpoint is that although a rule is not enforced doesn't mean it won't be enforced in the future, or that the government won't enforce it simply to keep someone quiet. Yes, I'm a little paranoid, thanks for asking.

This is the kind of BS I'm talking about.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/feds-raid-nc-home-to-seize-land-rover-in-epa-emiss/

You're right '75 and down in California your pretty much golden.

You're also right, I think I've beaten this dead horse long enough. ;)

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

That link isn't really BS. Landrover quit selling the defender 90 in America in (blanking on the year) because of the stricter emissions requirements. Instead of haulting production they just excluded that vehicle from the US market. That poor woman in the story bought an imported vehicle that had a bogus or swapped vin.

Technically that vehicle is illegal because its newer than when the regulation was put into place.

It sucks for her, but that is the risk of buying a car like that through the internet.
 
Does anybody have a picture that shows the 05 ram with hemi Vapor canister and how it plumbs in to the fuel tank? I believe it has two canisters according to moparparts but they don't show in the picture diagrams how it plumbs in to the fuel tank and purge solenoid, any pics or help would be great.

Cheers Dave
 
Hey Boony, my engineer in NSW said that crate engines didn't have to meet emissions. The loophole is that because a new crate engine has never been fitted to a car, it has no defined set of emission values that can be used.
If the engine came out of a 300C, it has to meet the emissions for a 300C.
So all you need to do is convince the authorities that you have a crate motor and you're sweet!
I have a 2004 Ram 5.7 going into a VG, so I have the same issue as you.
 
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