Wutchyoo want?
Help Identifying a 392 HEMI for sale
- Thread starter Dave Haertel
- Start date
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Wutchyoo want?
This guy needs some advice on early Hemi... Read the first post...
The hothemiheads.com site has a ton of info. You can even call and speak directly to Bob Walker. Super nice guy and very knowledgeable. 2K for that engine is probably right on target. If it was a good running engine, you're talkin about more than twice and possible three times more.
Dave Haertel
Well-Known Member
So do you think 4-5 grand on top of the purchase price to get it back to where it should be is possible? I’m trying to decide if this is worth the effort. I’m going to stuff this in my 71 Swinger to replace the 360 that’s in there which I’ll sell to offset this build if it makes sense
It's all dependent on the person. If you're really good at budget builds and can do a lot of the work yourself, yes, it's very possible. But if you are going to have to farm a lot of the build work out, then probably not. I did all of the cylinder head work myself minus the milling. I also prepped my own block and assembled the engine myself. The more you can do yourself, the more you can save. I was also in the right place at the right time when buying parts.......or you might say I just waited it out.
Dave Haertel
Well-Known Member
I’d probably Have a shop do the line hone, magnaflux the block and go through the heads to clean up whatever was needed their but assemble everything from that point. Unless there’s something extra tricky about these that could give me pause to assemble it
Head work can get really expensive if they need a lot. Also, be very careful Milling the heads. Since the chamber is round, it does not take much at all to make a big difference in chamber volume. I had mine milled .025" and went from 8.5 to 9.3. Also, make sure to look up the intake side milling amount too. It's different than most V8s because of the angle of the intake ports. I cannot remember exactly, but I think mine was milled somewhere in the .060" area to align the intake properly. Since the angle of the intake ports is very great, is has an exponential effect on the intake side.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Unless you get very lucky you'll need to line bore it. If the bore machine isn't very rigid you'll probably need to lick it with a line hone to finish to size (I always line hone to finish).
The rest should be relatively simple.
Cap # 1,2 and 5 are from a donor, this went well cause they only needed a line hone. Hard to see, but # 1 used to be a # 4. Don't worry too much about the lac-o-cap thing!
Early Chrysler Hemi's cost A LOT to build. Even with non-race parts. 392's are even worse. Everything for a 392 costs more, and there are a decent number of things that are unique to the 392 because it has a taller deck than the 331/354's did. Without rockers and valve gear you're not going to build it for less than $5k. Quite honestly, I wouldn't mess with a 392 unless I had $10k to spend on just the build. Seriously, just go over to Hot Heads Research & Racing Early Chrysler Hemi Engine Parts and start pricing out some of the parts you need. Without the valvetrain you've got some money to spend before you even start working on the rebuild costs. Sure, you can build a 392 for less than $10k. But given the parts your missing, even a basic rebuild is gonna be hard to get under $5k.
In addition, you will need a decent amount of custom work to put the 392 in your '71. I've seen it done, but you're going to be on your own for a bunch of parts. You'd be far better off and money ahead building a 440. No, that wouldn't be as cool looking, but resale would probably be better since the 392 isn't an engine that normally goes in a '71 Swinger.
Costs can add up, depends on how far U want to get into it. Ten G's adds up fast.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
lots of good info there, but no explanation of the 3NE57. It’s a ‘57 300C 392.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Dave Haertel
Well-Known Member
Not too concerned about resale, this is a non-numbers matching Dart anyway, it started life as a slanty, so this would be more just for the sake of saving a piece of history and the experience of it all. As long as I take care of the motor, I'd assume I could resell just the motor if I wanted to in the future hopefully breaking even but even if I lost a little but got years of service out of it, meh maybe it'd be worth it.
famous bob
mopar misfit
I have only experience with 426`s , but I`ve heard by a guy that's building a nostalgia dragster that the 331 heads are the best .---??
Sorry, I messed that up. 354’s came out in ‘56. The “555” heads that everyone wants are ‘55 331 heads. But there are a couple castings for the 354’s that are about the same as the 555’s, just different casting numbers. The 392 heads are the ones that aren’t liked, because they added material and a less than great turn at the port because of the added deck height on the 392.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
And those heads are hard. They are a PITA to port because of how hard they are. I've done 4-5 sets of them. Never again.
That's actually true. The 54 and up 331 and 354 heads are the best. They are actually more of a true Hemi design. The 392 heads are actually the worst besides the tiny round port 51-53 331 heads. Because of how the intake ports are curved more downward, because the 392 is a tall deck engine and rather than make the intakes different, they extended the intake ports which makes the intake ports on the 392 heads much less desirable. The hot ticket is putting the 392 size valves in the 331 or 354 heads.
Depends on what you're doing with them. Gene Adams said all the heads, '54-'58, flowed about 225cfm in stock form. When you start porting them is when the difference comes out, the ported 54/55 heads do better.
And it's all relative. Even the 51-53 331 heads in stock form probably flow about as well as stock small block heads in stock form. Certainly better than the factory 318 heads did. You wouldn't use them for a big horsepower build, but even a stockish 331 build with better compression numbers would put out decent power with them.
An excerpt from "Racing the early hemi, by Gene Adams" Racing the early hemi, by Gene Adams – Alkydigger – Technical Info
"I’m going to talk about cylinder heads first, as they are the most important part of making horsepower. This is probably the least understood aspect of the early hemi engines. One would naturally think that the last and largest of the early hemi’s, the ‘57-‘58 392, would have the heads with the most potential. This is not true, and the ‘56 354 head is not much better. The ‘54-‘55 331 passenger car and some industrial heads have far mor air flow potential for racing. These heads actually have bigger ports. The reason for this is not completely understood. Rumors and some sources say that the later heads were made smaller for improved low end torque to haul the larger and heavier cars that they were used in. This is the reason the aftermarket manufacturers of aluminum heads copied the 331.
The stock valve sizes from ‘54 through ‘56 were the same with 1.940″ intakes and 1.750″ exhausts. The 392 has 2.00″ intake and 1.750″ exhaust valves. All the heads in stock form flow about 225 CFM maximum. With all out porting and big intake valves, the ‘54 and ‘55 heads can be make to flow as much as 15% more than the ‘56 – ‘58 heads. In total flow numbers, the ‘56 – ‘58 will flow 305 – 315 CFM, and the ‘54 – ‘55 will flow 360 – 370 CFM. When casually inspecting these heads, the differences are not readily apparent. The intake port at the opening is the same, but on closer inspection, one can see a significant difference next to the valve guide area. The ports in early heads are much taller, at 1.675″ as compared to the later heads which are 1.410″, and start tapering to the smaller size immediately from the port opening. The way the water jackets are cast, the late heads cannot be opened up to the size of the early heads. The 331 heads allow the advantage of a much larger valve, as large as a 2.200″ intake. Keep in mind, these high flow numbers are without brazing, welding, or epoxy. One of the mistakes that was made in the ‘60’s with the hemi’s was installing huge exhaust valves at the expense of the intake size, which caused over scavenging. A popular size was 2.0625″, and in some cases even 2.125″ exhaust valves, which was counterproductive. In some instances when this was done, the exhaust out flowed the intake by a great deal. I was guilty of using a 2.0625″ valve myself, not knowing any better at the time. The ideal valve size is 2.125″ for blown and 2.200″ for unblown intakes and 1.800″ for all exhausts."
I was told years ago that you can use 340 main caps on a 392. Is this true?
U can even still get big tube headers for the 392, not sure if they fit the smaller motors or not. Kim
hemi heads 1954 down 331's , 1955 301 331 these heads and blocks have one year only dowel pins , 1956 - 1958 354 392 interchange . you can fit the early 55 heads on the 56-58 with some rework . 1954 to 1955 the water jacks changed . i have several early hemi projects on going . here is the 54 331 twin fours , 54 331 ind i'm punching to 354 with algon injectors , here is a 55 poly 301 i've converted to 55 331 hemi heads , building a desoto and a chrysler for the salt racer . i've got a 354 bored n stroked to 426 on its way . and a 392 out of a drag boat , i'm not an expert , but i can help if needed .
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