Home schoolers...

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ramenth said:
So, in other words, you're elitist. Got it. So, do your degrees also make you think you're more qualified to make parental decisions than the parents? Should the future of the children be decided by committee?

Care to explain, why, on the whole, home schooled children do better on standardized tests, such as the SAT's?

Assembly line education is a joke, as seen by the results of the education system. We're far behind our peers when it comes the STEM degrees needed to compete in the market place and that starts in grade schools.

What you're failing to look at are other factors in the beliefs of the childrens' parents or treatment from schools.

My sister for instance, pulled my nephew and niece out of the local public school to home school them. She didn't walk into it blind and she had to submit to the state everything she needed to be qualified. She had to submit the curriculum and submit the test results. Those results, by the way, being higher than the average for the school she pulled them out of.

She pulled the out because my nephew was being harrassed by a couple of bullies. They'd beat the hell out of my nephew and his teacher would discipline him.

After some digging the teacher was close friends with the bullies' family. The school administrators did nothing about this when confronted with the facts. Instead, they blamed my sister.

After that she was done.

They are heavily involved in the local Boy Scout and Brownie troop as well as dance and tumbling classes for my niece.
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No, I am not elitist. I am a realist. I do have the degrees to teach my subject matter, and that makes me qualified. I also have over 2 and a half decades of experience which gives me the right to comment on the topic. I am a parent as well of a 9 year old and a 12 year old. I work at night with my daughter on her math assignments, and I am quickly being less effective at helping her with her homework because that is not my discipline. This helps to provide a lens for my perspective. Your singular perspective and experience with the bully, while significant is just that, singular. I have had experience with some 13,000 students over the course of my career and that helps me to understand the over all perspective that's all. I would never presume to tell others how to parent. I am sorry for your experience, but that is not indicative of all teachers.
 
66fs said:
Actually Parents have more time and some are more qualified and have a better motivation for success. They are not bound by your curriculum and can easily surpass it. The problem is with the marginal child, who will just be passed along without any useful knowledge or discipline. He or she then finds himself or herself in the real world without the tools to have a good life.
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I find it disconcerting that you state the easiness of surpassing what a qualified teacher is able to accomplish. Also, many marginal children are the sole focus of teachers such as myself. Sad.
 
I think common core also needs to be ditched. The schools curriculum needs to be determined by the individual states not the fed.
 
plum70crazy said:
No, I am not elitist. I am a realist. I do have the degrees to teach my subject matter, and that makes me qualified. I also have over 2 and a half decades of experience which gives me the right to comment on the topic. I am a parent as well of a 9 year old and a 12 year old. I work at night with my daughter on her math assignments, and I am quickly being less effective at helping her with her homework because that is not my discipline. This helps to provide a lens for my perspective. Your singular perspective and experience with the bully, while significant is just that, singular. I have had experience with some 13,000 students over the course of my career and that helps me to understand the over all perspective that's all. I would never presume to tell others how to parent. I am sorry for your experience, but that is not indicative of all teachers.
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For someone with so many degrees and experience you missed my point:

There's many reasons to home school. You seem to want to gloss over those reasons.

The fact is you might be more qualified as an educator, you are not more qualified as a parent to those children who's parents have made that decision.
 
ramenth said:
For someone with so many degrees and experience you missed my point:

There's many reasons to home school. You seem to want to gloss over those reasons.

The fact is you might be more qualified as an educator, you are not more qualified as a parent to those children who's parents have made that decision.
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Actually, there are many reasons to home school. I was never glossing over the reasons, just addressing the broad generalizations made regarding teaching and the public school system. As I may not have stated clearly enough, only parents can make decisions for their own children. My singular intent through this discourse has been the consideration of the qualifications of the home schooling parents, political agendas (again apparent wholesale criticism), and the correction of misinformation of the generalizations regarding teachers. That, and the fact that our expertise at the secondary level is not "easily covered" in the average home.
 
plum70crazy said:
I find it disconcerting that you state the easiness of surpassing what a qualified teacher is able to accomplish. Also, many marginal children are the sole focus of teachers such as myself. Sad.
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I do not say teaching is easy. You can not imagine all the amazing teachers, college professors, and home schoolers in my family let alone friends. The simple math is, if we are honest, teachers have 30 to 45 minutes to teach a lesson after they get the childrens attention. A home schooler has as much time as it takes, and the advantage of knowing when and how their child learns best. Don't think I could or would ever teach children, I have neither the knack or inclination. I am not saying you are bad, only that what you believe is not necessarily so. I went to public school and was appalled at what my kids were taught, and not taught, in public school. I have had friends who pulled their kids from public school and had them thrive and excel. People are waking up to the fact that public schools are going south and failing to prepare our children for the future. I do not blame teachers.
 
Ramenth i am assuming Mr. plum70crazy is a public screwl teacher. I which case he may feel on this thread that has to justify his job function. I am thinking its a matter of pride in what he does for a living. I think we all feel that way.

However public screwls cannot justify the fleecing of the taxpayers for more and more money every year that gets pumped into failing schools. I read a solution to that.

It seems that the money per student is given directly to the school in that childs district. Now what i am now going to say goes against any liberals thinking and thats survival of the fittest. The money should be tied to the student, not the school. The parents should decide the school their child will go to based on a yearly published performance prospectus of all the public schools in their area the child is eligible to go to.

The schools that have the best performance will get the most kids, and the schools with the worst performance will get the least. Then its up to the poor performers to get their scores up if they want the students and therefore the money to run their school and get payed.

Run it like a business. Quite simply if a company made a crap product, their competitors would put em out of business with a superior product. The japanese got us thinking in the 70s and 80s when tokyo tonkas were killing our auto industry. They made the better product, and quite frankly we were making crap. American cars and trucks are really good quality now, because of competition.

The result of our education system should be a well educated individual. That IS the product. If your school cant perform, it should go out of business.

Parents should have school choice in public schools. It fosters competition. And that results in a better end product.
 
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moparmat2000 said:
Ramenth i am assuming Mr. plum70crazy is a public screwl teacher. I which case he may feel on this thread that has to justify his job function. I am thinking its a matter of pride in what he does for a living. I think we all feel that way.

However public screwls cannot justify the fleecing of the taxpayers for more and more money every year that gets pumped into failing schools. I read a solution to that.

It seems that the money per student is given directly to the school in that childs district. Now what i am now going to say goes against any liberals thinking and thats survival of the fittest. The money should be tied to the student, not the school. The parents should decide the school their child will go to based on a published performance prospectus of the schools in their area the child is eligible to go to. The schools that have the best performance will get the most kids, and the schools with the worst performance will get the least. Then its up to them to get their scores up if they want the students and therefore the money to run their school and get payed.

Run it like a business. Quite simply if a company made a crap product, their competitors would put em out of business with a superior product. The japanese got us thinking in tge 70s and 80s when tokyo tonkas were killing our auto industry. They made the better product, and quite frankly we were making crap. Anerican cars and trucks are really good quality now, because of competition.

The result of our education system should be a well educated individual. That IS the product. If your school cant perform, it should go out of business.

Parents should have school choice in public schools. It fosters competition. And that results in a better end product.
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Question. How would Detroit survive? lol
 
fratzog lover said:
Question. How would Detroit survive? lol
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I'm thinking Its too late for them. 60 plus years of liberals running the joint, and you get what you get with that one.

Detroit, Chicago, and others are wonderful experiments in liberalism stupidity run amock. Thats what you get when you let effin liberal schmucks run anything for any length of time, they run it right into the ground. These are people who flunked basic math, probably dont even know how to balance a damn checkbook, but they sure know how to raise taxes dont they.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Ramenth i am assuming Mr. plum70crazy is a public screwl teacher. I which case he may feel on this thread that has to justify his job function. I am thinking its a matter of pride in what he does for a living. I think we all feel that way.

However public screwls cannot justify the fleecing of the taxpayers for more and more money every year that gets pumped into failing schools. I read a solution to that.

It seems that the money per student is given directly to the school in that childs district. Now what i am now going to say goes against any liberals thinking and thats survival of the fittest. The money should be tied to the student, not the school. The parents should decide the school their child will go to based on a yearly published performance prospectus of all the public schools in their area the child is eligible to go to.

The schools that have the best performance will get the most kids, and the schools with the worst performance will get the least. Then its up to the poor performers to get their scores up if they want the students and therefore the money to run their school and get payed.

Run it like a business. Quite simply if a company made a crap product, their competitors would put em out of business with a superior product. The japanese got us thinking in the 70s and 80s when tokyo tonkas were killing our auto industry. They made the better product, and quite frankly we were making crap. American cars and trucks are really good quality now, because of competition.

The result of our education system should be a well educated individual. That IS the product. If your school cant perform, it should go out of business.

Parents should have school choice in public schools. It fosters competition. And that results in a better end product.
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And that's the gist, right there.

New York makes the claim of $14k per student. A local administrator let the cat out of the bag. Seems that of that $14k "per student" $9600 of that is used for salary and benefits for the faculty and staff. Take into account the moneys used for equipment, buildings and grounds, utilities, and insurances on such and the math shows that only about $2k is actually spent on curriculum.

And it's the curriculum that affects the kids directly.

Now, take into account that of that $14k "per student," New York is high on the list for taxpayers money used, but only the middle of the list for results.

The teachers' unions pitched a fit when Cuomo visited the Archdiocese in Rochester for a talk about why private schools get better results for half the money. A lot of the reason is because most of that money goes into curriculum and not back into salaries and benefits. Yet a private school teacher will earn just as much. The legacy costs aren't there.

And that's the failing. For the money spent in the public education system, shouldn't we expect more for our money?

Home schooled kids in New York still have to take the Regents exam. And do better on them than their public school peers. So, the specialized teaching aspect seems to be a non-starter if home schoolers are doing better on the exams in math, science, and history.
 
And heres the other kicker. Even if you home school your kids successfully because the public schools in your area suck or are indoctrination centers you still have to pay via your taxes to support the public school system in your area.
 
moparmat2000 said:
And heres the other kicker. Even if you home school your kids successfully because the public schools in your area suck or are indoctrination centers you still have to pay via your taxes to support the public school system in your area.
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And then have the politicians who are against home schooling or are sympathetic to the teachers' unions try to tell you that because they aren't enrolled your home schooled kids aren't eligible for after school activities like sports or band.

Yet they still demand your money to support those programs.
 
ramenth said:
And then have the politicians who are against home schooling or are sympathetic to the teachers' unions try to tell you that because they aren't enrolled your home schooled kids aren't eligible for after school activities like sports or band.

Yet they still demand your money to support those programs.
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Yep its a total scam. Unfortunately between my wife and i working to support our household we cannot do the home school, plus the oldest kid put a damper on it since she fucked off for a year and Didnt want to do the work.
 
Wow, just wow. Get the tin foil hats and bite guards out, there is no talking sense here.
 
plum70crazy said:
Wow, just wow. Get the tin foil hats and bite guards out, there is no talking sense here.
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When the government becomes as intrusive as they have been, and the left tries to push indoctrination in the public schools. When they want our little kiddies to learn about islam, and transgender bullshit, but screw teaching them about judiasm or christianity, nevermind thats not what our public schools are for. Reading writing, arithmatic, science and history are what they are for. Social engineering and other bull is evidenced by our failing public schools and awful scores and you think we are the tin foil hat crowd. How dare you. Its all about dumbing down our kids. This has been going on for years. The redacted textbooks teaching revisionist history etc. Reagan said it best when he stated big government is not the solution, its the problem

I took my nephew to see the Admiral Nimitz museum of the pacific war in Fredericksburg Texas. That showed the real history of what happened. They only glossed over it in his senior history books. He thanked me for taking him there. Maybe you should look in the mirror and probe your scalp maybe you are wearing the de riguere tinfoil hat yourself.
 
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