Hydraulic Roller Lifters w/LA Block?
- Thread starter nub340
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Hey my bad, been really busy. Just had the chance to follow up with the the shop again yesterday...
OK - so we've pretty much looked into every possible approach to solving this issue, including all of the solutions proposed in this thread, as well as elsewhere. Unfortunately so far no one, neither; MRL nor Hughes nor Shaver nor Isky nor Comp, have a foolproof solution for reliably retrofitting a 70's era small block LA motor to a hydraulic roller cam and valve-train setup without potentially requiring costly specialized machine work.
Since my particular LA block has large chamfers on the lifter bores I would essentially need to have the lifter bores sleeved at a highly reputable machine shop and at a considerable cost. It's possible that other LA blocks do not have these chamfers or are much smaller and in these cases the aforementioned solutions may infact work just fine.
I'm not so lucky though and for the cost of having the lifter bores sleeved I would rather just step it up to solid rollers which we know will DEFINATELY work and also make the most power. So yeah, that's the plan now. Will swing by this week when he's back from vacation to discuss the specifics and price etc.
OK - so we've pretty much looked into every possible approach to solving this issue, including all of the solutions proposed in this thread, as well as elsewhere. Unfortunately so far no one, neither; MRL nor Hughes nor Shaver nor Isky nor Comp, have a foolproof solution for reliably retrofitting a 70's era small block LA motor to a hydraulic roller cam and valve-train setup without potentially requiring costly specialized machine work.
Since my particular LA block has large chamfers on the lifter bores I would essentially need to have the lifter bores sleeved at a highly reputable machine shop and at a considerable cost. It's possible that other LA blocks do not have these chamfers or are much smaller and in these cases the aforementioned solutions may infact work just fine.
I'm not so lucky though and for the cost of having the lifter bores sleeved I would rather just step it up to solid rollers which we know will DEFINATELY work and also make the most power. So yeah, that's the plan now. Will swing by this week when he's back from vacation to discuss the specifics and price etc.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Sorry nub, I just can't believe it. Whoever is telling you to NOT have the base circle lowered is full of BS.
I know at least 4 local guys here who have done what I did. It works.
My brand new Lunati just came last week ground on a 1.040 base, and with Mikes lifters all is good. Without the lowered base and Mikes lifters, it would be a disaster.
What year is your block again?
I know at least 4 local guys here who have done what I did. It works.
My brand new Lunati just came last week ground on a 1.040 base, and with Mikes lifters all is good. Without the lowered base and Mikes lifters, it would be a disaster.
What year is your block again?
'71 block - me thinks.
If you're referring to Mike from MRL his lifters are solid rollers (not hydraulic). If you have hydraulic lifters they're probably the Morels that I already have (see my pics above to confirm).
Yeah the cam grind might actually work still but it can only be shaved down so much.
rod7515 mentions above that even after two custom cam grinds it still wasn't enough for him so he ended up having to go to MRL solid rollers too. Trying to avoid a similar headache which is why going solid seems like it might be the overall better option for me.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Ah crap, nub. forgot you were doing hydraulic. My bad..... couldn't you use a solid lifter for a hyd. cam? Roller, that is. I heard you can, but not visa versa....
Yeah.. I'm pretty sure he said I could keep my current hydraulic roller cam and just use it with solid roller lifters instead. Of course to go solid I'll also need to get adjustable rocker arms and new springs/valve train components so it's def going to be more expensive.
What kind of valve train did you pair with the MRL's?
lilcuda
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You can run solid rollers on Comp Cams hydraulic rollers. My Valiant has a Comp XFI hydraulic roller with solid rollers. It's a little noisy and you have to keep the lash tight (.006" - .008" hot), but it seems to be fine. For more info on it, Google "427 Valiant", I didn't build it.
sledger46
Well-Known Member
The roller cam was originally destine to go into a crate 360. The crate 360 was stored with coolant in one cylinder that ate up the block. I decided to put the cam in my existing LA 360 and purchased the roller lifters to make it happen.
Was it cheap...NO. Was it easy...YES. The roller cam was spec'd to be very similar to the XE-268H flat tappet grind with more lift. 224/230 with .513" lift and 110 LSA. The roller cam was a great match to my EQ magnum heads with 2.02 intakes and 1.625 exhaust valves. The roller cam and heads would be at home on any SBM 318-360. I will be re-using the heads and cam on the next SBM that goes in my Dart (currently planning on a Magnum 360).
justinp61
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You were going to need adjustable rockers even with a hydraulic roller as the stamped rockers won't take much spring with out punching the pr through them. Also I doubt there will be much if any difference in springs need to put solids on it instead of hydraulics.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Right on....... I'm using Hughes rockers and shafts, with the MRL solids. Absolutely perfect friggin geometry and "scrub pattern". They are a little expensive but nowhere near T&D or Jessel. I've been running them for a long time. The last set I had were the 1.5 ratio. I ran em for 4 years and sold them to a buddy for his drag car. He's running almost 700lbs open pressure and has somewhere north of 200 passes on em. Amazing.
Nice, sounds sick man!!
So I just got off the phone w/my engine builder and after discussing this issue at length with Mike at MRL, and many others, he no longer wants to try and grind the cam and is recommending that we just go to solid rollers and avoid all the headache.
I agree. So we're going to try and return the Comp hydro roller cam I currently have and get a legit solid roller cam and solid roller lifters instead. Hopefully Comp will at least give us credit since the hydro cam was technically not compatible with my block. Not sure if we'll be able to return the Morel's though. We shall see...
He also said he can get me a good price on a set of T&D rocker arms and oilers so I'm prob going to say **** it and just do it. Plus that way I'm actually excited about my motor again instead of being so stressed out! Haha.
rod7515
Well-Known Member
Nub340, sorry i didnt follow up with my post. This is the first time ive looked back. As for my cam and lifters it was always a solid roller cam application. And in the end my cam even after 2 regrinds to reduce the base circle still would not work with the comp solid rollers. Thats when I found Mike and he hooked me up with his solid rollers. As of today I have still not started this motor so Im hoping everything will be ok as it was still close. As for your statement of stress, yes problems like these make you ask why are you the only one with this problem. You feel like your all alone. I wish you the best of luck. I will be following now.
Rod
Rod
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
Well, if ya can't return the Comp and Morels, they will sell real quick here or on Moparts.
Far as T&D......ooh I'm jealous!.
Now as far as the cam...Lunati will grind it lower for no extra charge and ship it free. I paid $335 TOTAL. Just sayin. The magic number for my base circle was 1.040. And my lift is 640/640. Perfect. Ask for Justin.
I found their cam to be much more stout, core wise than the Comp. I was a Comp guy for many years......no more, man. Again, just sayin
Far as T&D......ooh I'm jealous!.
Now as far as the cam...Lunati will grind it lower for no extra charge and ship it free. I paid $335 TOTAL. Just sayin. The magic number for my base circle was 1.040. And my lift is 640/640. Perfect. Ask for Justin.
I found their cam to be much more stout, core wise than the Comp. I was a Comp guy for many years......no more, man. Again, just sayin
Quick update. Good news - we were able to return everything for a full refund (minus some shipping) and order a new solid roller cam, lifters and adjustable rockers. The lifters are already here so we're just waiting on the cam and T&D's. Hopefully everything will go smoothly once all the new parts are in hand.
justinp61
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A word of advice on the T&D rockers. The instructions say if you clean them do a minimal amount. My advice is to soak them in mineral spirits and wash ALL the grease out of them. Make sure all the oil ports are clear, after they dry oil the roller and coat everything else in sealed power assembly lube.
We would've burnt up the push rods and adjuster last week when my 434 was on the dyno if we hadn't been paying attention. Almost all the oil holes going to the adjusters were plugged with that freaking grease they use.
Your mileage may vary.
We would've burnt up the push rods and adjuster last week when my 434 was on the dyno if we hadn't been paying attention. Almost all the oil holes going to the adjusters were plugged with that freaking grease they use.
Your mileage may vary.
well this is the cams problem , just as one guy told you the base circle of that cam is to large a dia to allow the lifter to set further down the bore at max lift the lube over all lift has tobe reduced , if you want the same lube profile . my cam grinder can and will regrind it for you , well as long as he has your cam lube profile . if not he can pull that off your cam and build the profiler to follow . redline racing cams 408-313-0145 spiro jennings (owner) . hope you get what you need done .
Duane
Well-Known Member
Those lifters look like not for that engine. I can clearly see the lifter is sitting on the cam lobe and yet the top of the lifter is out of the bore about an inch. Does not look right to me.
Does not look like the lifter would be stable in operation. Just my two cents.
Duane
So I'm happy to report that after many issues and much delay we finally got it on the test stand and fired it up for the first time last weekend! I was expecting more noise from the solid roller setup but it's remarkably quiet (even quieter than before) and runs beautifully!! Just got it back home today so I can't wait to get it back into the car. Couple recent pics:
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