Ignition experts needed

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Ironmike

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I'll start from the beginning. Bought my 71 340 with an Accel Street Billet distrubutor already installed. Ballast resisitor bypassed correctly. With a Pertronix coil. Car ran great since September, but a week ago I started having an issue.'
The thing would be purring right along and just die. Running in gear and the tach would drop to zero. The tach wouldn't die if it was a fuel issue. Thought it was a coil, so I decided to instal an Accel 300+ Multi Strike ignition. Used this before and loved the start up and throttle response. Out with the old, in with the new. Wired perfectly. New plugs and wires too.
So....after a small dilemma, fire her up today and wow! No cold blooded start...real snappy throttle response. Get her warmed up and off I go.
3 blocks down the street, it dies. SAME way as before.......tach drops to nothing and dies. Just like you shut the key off.
Jump out, open the hood, look for....something wrong. Jump back in and bang...starts right up. Close the hood and it dies. No restart. I waited 2 or 3 minutes and she starts right up.
I limped home those 3 blocks with several stalls and waits to restart.
HAS to be electrical due to the tach dying when the engine dies, but what?
Is there some relay or regulator on these Mopars that could be the culprit?
Could it be the magnetic pick up in the distrib?

Sorry this is long winded but I'm getting desperate. I have no access to any info other than you guys, and I hope someone can point me in the right direction.
 
Are you running E3 spark plugs? If you are that is 100% your problem! Those plugs are absolute **** on anything other than a lawnmower!
 
my son inlaw is having the same poblem with his 69 340 and we have not been able to find it his some time will run for upto a half houror just till the engine get warm then start doing the same as yours he does not have a tach and it is bacis stock with a mallory dual piont dist it ran well for 5 year with this set up. I am thinking that there may be a curtict beaker that is old and week that is causing this problem but where the hell is it.
 
Have you checked the clearance on the pickup? Might be too wide. Temperature might increase the spacing enough to stop it from working.
 
KitCarlson said:
Have you checked the clearance on the pickup? Might be too wide. Temperature might increase the spacing enough to stop it from working.
Click to expand...
I had this exact problem and the symptoms were very similar to yours Ironmike, look there first.
 
Running standard Champion plugs. I don't think the Accel pick up is adjustable. The manual says it is "factory" set. Maybe it's just bad.
There are only 2 things remaining the same since I switched to the new ignition. 1. the distributor and 2. the 12v line I'm connected to.
I was gonna run the 12v line from the ignition box right to the battery tomorrow, bypassing the ign. switch and see what happens. If it still dies I'm thinking it HAS to be the pick up in the distrib.
What is the relay type thingy mounted on the fenderwell next to the battery?

Maaaan this is killing me! Thanks for the suggestions and please keep 'em coming.

Mike
 
Sounds heat related.

First, make sure you aren't losing power to the box. A marginal connection may go open when warm. When did you last clean your bulkhead connector?

Second, replace the pickup in the distributor. It may be going open circuit once it gets warm enough. If you have access to one of those nifty IR thermometers, this would be a good time to play with it.
 
Quote: Could it be the magnetic pick up in the distrib.

Yes, I had a 360 once that when it got hot the reluctor would crap out and engine would die. Wait 2 minutes and start right up again.
 
Well, looks like you guys got me pointed the right way. Spent the whole morning checking all connections, cleaned up the bulkhead connections and every other plug in the engine compartment.
Put a voltmeter inline with the switched 12v connection to the box and fired it up.
Got it nice and warmed up, idling fine, revved it thru the RPM range to simulate driving(it's raining). It ran in the garage for a good 20 minutes then started missing a bit, then finally died. Like throwing a switch, man. Voltmeter still 12v.
Tried to restart right away and it just cranked and cranked. No spark at all.
15 minutes later it fired right up but would only idle. Give it some throttle and just sputter........
So, I'm betting it's the friggin pick up in the distrib. I'm calling Accel tomorrow first thing.
You guys think I'm on the right track? Hope so.

Mike
 
This is unbelievable! Brand bew pick up comes today. Put it in, set the gap properly and get ready to fire it up. Nothing. No lights, horn....nothing. Go under the hood and give the relay/regulator(don't know fer sure what it is), down by the battery a few taps, now it turns over and fires right up. Runs real nice for 15 minutes and just dies AGAIN. Same as before, watched the tach needle drop to nothing right as she dies. I noticed the dome light going dim, bright,dim and the volage guage was fluctuating also.
Now I'm mad. There's only 2 connections with this Accel ignition, one to the engine ground and one to a switched 12v ignition wire. So... I run the 12v wire right to the battery, completely eliminating all my car's original wiring. Fire it up and again, runs fine for 10 minutes and dies again. Crank away and no spark, wait 10 minutes and fires right up again only to die shortly.
The whole ignition system is brand new, and keep in mind this is why I replaced the ignition. I thought for sure it was the old system.

I'm at a loss for any clue. It HAS to be electrical, but what? I mean running straight to the battery should eliminate any wiring or relay/regulator right?

I saved for 12 years to buy this car and paid a lot. Now I feel like it'll NEVER run.
Somebody gotta be able to figure this out. I'm about out of ideas.

Mike
 
I had a similar problem once. It would just shut off like I turned the key off. Sometimes, it would start right back up, other times, I'd have to wait a few minutes, then it would start. At first, it would happen about once every week or 2, then got more frequent. Turned out to be the pick-up plate.
 
Feel your pain! Lets go back to basics. Your first problem is no spark at the distributor. Then you have a second problem with no lights, horn, etc. 2 completely different problems. Lets address the 2nd one first. Check and clean all your battery cable connections to ground, to the solenoid, to the starter etc. The cables can build up with corrosion inside that reduce your voltage. If you're having to hit the solenoid in order to get power to start the car, I'm betting you have corroded cables or a bad solenoid.

Now the distributor needs spark in order to fire. The spark is generated by the coil. Are the connections to the coil good? Distributor lead to the ground (-) Negative side of the coil?? Your tach wire also goes to the negative side. Any cuts in that wire anywhere that could possibly short out that wire to the coil??

When the car eventually dies, do you still have lights. horn, radio, power, etc.? How old is your battery? It could be shortng out on you!!

I am not saying these are the answers, I am just saying don't overlook the simple things. And last if that doesn't help. Do you know anyone that might lend you there distributor to try??

Good Luck
A340
 
Coil overheating and dieing? I had that happen before, it would die after the car warmed up then I would wait about 20-40 mins and it would start again.
 
Well. Since the entire ignition is brand new, I decided to at least replace the starter relay, to fix that issue. A-zone had 1 on the shelf. Came home wired it in and fired up the car. Waitinig for it to die again, I noticed the guage was pretty steady this time. 45 minutes I sat in that thing, revving...idling...revving. Couldn't try driving it due to weather, but it didn't die. Hasn't run that long since before this issue.
I can't believe a starter relay could fix it though, since I had the ignition wired right to the battery.
The battery is only 2 years old. I did notice that when I finally shut 'er down, my voltage regulator was really hot. Almost too hot too touch. Doesn't seem right. Maybe like A340 said, I have a bad battery...or regulator. Accel tells me a big voltage drop OR spike will shut the box down, temporarily.
Can a bad tach wire really short out the coil? I've notice that since this problem began my shift light on the tach is very faintly glowing, when the car's running. Just noticed it tonite in the dark garage.

I'm really reachin', I know. Think I might replace the voltage regulator tomorrow.
 
What's the voltage across the battery not running and engine idling and engine at 2000 rpm. Also make sure your connections at the alternator are tight.
 
Gonna check the batt today. And the alternator.
I'm wondering if my tach could be the whole problem. If it's shorting out internally, could it short out the coil?
It's a relatively new lower end Auto Meter with a shift light.
 
Just disconnect the Tach wire from your coil. This will surely tell you if it's the tach. The only reason I mentioned this is because my brother installed a Sun Super tach in his Duster when it was new in 1970. Evertime he pulled the emergency brake the car would die. I found that the dummy wrapped the wire from the tach to the coil around the E-Brake and when it was pulled it pinched the wire and caused the short.
 
Sounds like everyone has said to do everything I can think of, except, try running another ground strap from the engine to the body. You can get one of those that clips on so it can even be temporary. Sometimes if you have a poor ground, it can cause all sorts of problems like the glowing tach light.

As for the starter relay, if it carried the bulk of the power, and had fallen apart or corroded, the remaining wires hooked to positive may have been carrying power to the electrical system and the heat from the excessive draw may have damaged something in the process.
 
The ideas you guys are giving me is getting me motivated again. Gonna spend all day in the garage. I'm trying EVERYTHING!

Let ya know how it goes.

Mike
 
Spent all day in the garage. New voltage regulator today, along with fixing a couple really bad connections at the alternator. Checked my tach wiring and all the new ignition wiring...again. All looked good.

New plugs, nice new wires and billet looms. And checked battery voltage. 12.8 volts. Now fire it up and noticed immediately it ain't cold blooded anymore. Idled on it's own, no choke in 2 minutes or so. 50 degrees in the garage today.

Batt. voltage at idle 13.4 and at 2000 RPM, 14.7. No more crazy alt gauge.
And the big thing is....it didn't die on me. Ran for 45 minutes and never burped.
I can't believe a starter relay, a voltage regulator or a couple bad wires at the alt could have been the problem from day 1. Hope I'm not jinxing myself, but I think it might be ok.
Gonna drive it tomorrow. Not too far from home, either. I might just go around the block 100 times or so.
My fingers are crossed :)
 
Ironmike said:
Spent all day in the garage. New voltage regulator today, along with fixing a couple really bad connections at the alternator. Checked my tach wiring and all the new ignition wiring...again. All looked good.

New plugs, nice new wires and billet looms. And checked battery voltage. 12.8 volts. Now fire it up and noticed immediately it ain't cold blooded anymore. Idled on it's own, no choke in 2 minutes or so. 50 degrees in the garage today.

Batt. voltage at idle 13.4 and at 2000 RPM, 14.7. No more crazy alt gauge.
And the big thing is....it didn't die on me. Ran for 45 minutes and never burped.
I can't believe a starter relay, a voltage regulator or a couple bad wires at the alt could have been the problem from day 1. Hope I'm not jinxing myself, but I think it might be ok.
Gonna drive it tomorrow. Not too far from home, either. I might just go around the block 100 times or so.
My fingers are crossed :)
Click to expand...

Your battery voltages at off/idle/2000 are perfect. Don't forget to clean the battery posts and clamps and you should be good (hopefully),
 
Well, I let it run in the garage for half an hour. Closed the hood, turned on the heater and took off. Drove around the neighborhood for awhile, then figured what the heck.
I ended up doing a 36 mile round trip with no issues at all. Actually ran like a bear. That Multi strike ignition is the cat's ***. Very crisp response.

Ran it easy, beat on it a bit and all ended well. Still can't believe what I did stopped the problem. Tomorrow 30 degrees and sunny. Gonna go farther, longer. Jeez, I feel like Chuck Yeager. Wonder if I'll ever trust this thing again?

Thanks to everybody for helping me through this problem(hope it's over)! It is VERY much appreciated.

Mike
 
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