In-gear idle issues

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Eddy Hoover

Eddy Hoover

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Hello everyone,

Hopefully I am posting in the right spot.
I have a 1973 Dodge W200 (360 LA). The engine has been rebuilt with a mild cam and an edelbrock 1406 4 barrel.

For years I had an msd streetfire box and coil that worked beautifully. Unfortunately it become necessary to put back on the stock style system. I bought a new box and distributor(not points) and got it to pass smog.

My issue today (a week after changing ignition systems), is that the engine runs and cruises smoothly, but starts hiccuping when in gear and stopped or coming to a stop. It will sometimes idle at several stop lights perfectly and then it just starts acting up. I can keep it alive by throwing it in neutral, but I want to get this fixed once and for all.

Ignition switch and 4 point ballast have been replaced; As has the wiring from the ignition box to the coil and distributor (box and distributor came in a kit)

Any help would be appreciated.

Ps. I believe the ammeter has already been bypassed. And after smog, advancing timing has increased idle quality
 
'Mild' can mean different things to different people.
What are the cam specs? Initial timing now?

If the engine has all the smog crap on it, more likely to be leaking hose or sensor.
 
We need more info other than "advancing timing has increased idle quality". Give us some numbers off your timing light. Where is the initial timing set? Even a "mild" cam may need a good bit of initial advance to run properly. Help us out here.
 
How old is the carb? Try compressed air to idle air bleeds to clean them out. Vacuum advance hooked up? Other timing issue?
 
Where is the timing now? What is the idle speed in drive? Are you running a vacuum advance?
 
Hey the kit you bought have a orange ECU? New ones suck and can act that way when hot when they are starting to go bad.
 
Here are some additional details:
  • Unfortunately the cam specs are long gone
  • I am running ported vacuum advance
  • With advance hose plugged, timing at idle is advanced 25 degrees @825 RPM
  • The (carb) blue hose goes to vacuum gauge, left to distributor, and middle is split to valve cover and charcoal return line
  • Timing
  • Putting into gear

Thank you in advance

Carb.jpg


Coil & Dist.jpg


Ignition Box.jpg
 
That's a ton of advance for what seems like a very mild engine. Also, a few things. Are you 100% SURE you have the plug wire probe on the correct plug wire? Secondly, LOOK closely at the plug wire probe clamp. Sometimes they have an arrow that designates what direction to clamp them on. The arrow should point towards the plug if it has one. Lastly, I see the light doesn't not flash uniformly, so it cannot be giving you an accurate reading. This tells me a few possible things. Either you have a bad connection "somewhere" with the timing light, you have some rf interference with some other wires going on with the plug wires or you have a problem with the ECU box. That looks like one of those dirt cheap orange ECU boxes Mancini sells. They come from other places too, but if that's what it is, they are known for not being good......and that's putting it nicely. lol As a form of good practice though, before I changed anything, I would go over all connections and grounds and make sure they are CLEAN and TIGHT. One more note. You have a LOT of loose and disheveled wiring under that hood. You need to clean that up as that in itself could be some of the rf interference I was talking about. Probably not, but you never know.
 
On your carb vacuum port going into a T fitting with 1 hose going to PCV what does it go to on the other side of the T?
 
Eddy Hoover said:
Hello everyone,

Hopefully I am posting in the right spot.
I have a 1973 Dodge W200 (360 LA). The engine has been rebuilt with a mild cam and an edelbrock 1406 4 barrel.

For years I had an msd streetfire box and coil that worked beautifully. Unfortunately it become necessary to put back on the stock style system. I bought a new box and distributor(not points) and got it to pass smog.

My issue today (a week after changing ignition systems), is that the engine runs and cruises smoothly, but starts hiccuping when in gear and stopped or coming to a stop. It will sometimes idle at several stop lights perfectly and then it just starts acting up. I can keep it alive by throwing it in neutral, but I want to get this fixed once and for all.

Ignition switch and 4 point ballast have been replaced; As has the wiring from the ignition box to the coil and distributor (box and distributor came in a kit)

Any help would be appreciated.

Ps. I believe the ammeter has already been bypassed. And after smog, advancing timing has increased idle quality
Click to expand...
So the engine was running fine and performed well with the MSD box & coil, and you went back to the OE style setup just to pass smog? I would be inclined to go back to the MSD setup and put the OE setup back in when you need to get your smog test. Like halifaxshops said, the orange box ECU may be flaking out on you. I agree with what RRR mentioned, 25 degree advance is huge for a basically stock engine. Do you have someone with a known-good ECU that you could borrow just to eliminate the ECU being a problem?

Also the Blaster 2 coil does not need a ballast resistor. Ballast was for OE style coils and to prevent burning points, neither of which you have. You might want to try bypassing the ballast resistor to see if giving the coil the full 12v will help your issue.
 
Ricks70Duster340 said:
Also the Blaster 2 coil does not need a ballast resistor. Ballast was for OE style coils and to prevent burning points, neither of which you have. You might want to try bypassing the ballast resistor to see if giving the coil the full 12v will help your issue.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on which part number he has. They do make Blaster coils that require a ballast.
 
RustyRatRod said:
That's a ton of advance for what seems like a very mild engine. Also, a few things. Are you 100% SURE you have the plug wire probe on the correct plug wire? Secondly, LOOK closely at the plug wire probe clamp. Sometimes they have an arrow that designates what direction to clamp them on. The arrow should point towards the plug if it has one. Lastly, I see the light doesn't not flash uniformly, so it cannot be giving you an accurate reading. This tells me a few possible things. Either you have a bad connection "somewhere" with the timing light, you have some rf interference with some other wires going on with the plug wires or you have a problem with the ECU box. That looks like one of those dirt cheap orange ECU boxes Mancini sells. They come from other places too, but if that's what it is, they are known for not being good......and that's putting it nicely. lol As a form of good practice though, before I changed anything, I would go over all connections and grounds and make sure they are CLEAN and TIGHT. One more note. You have a LOT of loose and disheveled wiring under that hood. You need to clean that up as that in itself could be some of the rf interference I was talking about. Probably not, but you never know.
Click to expand...
Yes I believe the driver side closest to bumper cylinder is number 1. I will look for an arrow on the timing light and check all my connections. And you are right, the wiring needs cleaning up
 
RustyRatRod said:
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on which part number he has. They do make Blaster coils that require a ballast.
Click to expand...
Ricks70Duster340 said:
So the engine was running fine and performed well with the MSD box & coil, and you went back to the OE style setup just to pass smog? I would be inclined to go back to the MSD setup and put the OE setup back in when you need to get your smog test. Like halifaxshops said, the orange box ECU may be flaking out on you. I agree with what RRR mentioned, 25 degree advance is huge for a basically stock engine. Do you have someone with a known-good ECU that you could borrow just to eliminate the ECU being a problem?

Also the Blaster 2 coil does not need a ballast resistor. Ballast was for OE style coils and to prevent burning points, neither of which you have. You might want to try bypassing the ballast resistor to see if giving the coil the full 12v will help your issue.
Click to expand...
That is a good point. I don't know someone with a good box. If I try a couple things and I cannot fix it, I will work on getting the msd reconnected. It is a blaster 2 coil so I think you are right on not needing a ballast. How does one bypass a 4-point ballast (safely)?
 
Eddy Hoover said:
That is a good point. I don't know someone with a good box. If I try a couple things and I cannot fix it, I will work on getting the msd reconnected. It is a blaster 2 coil so I think you are right on not needing a ballast. How does one bypass a 4-point ballast (safely)?
Click to expand...
I'm tellin you, there are some blaster coils that most certainly DO require a ballast. Make sure. Don't just arbitrarily eliminate the ballast.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm tellin you, there are some blaster coils that most certainly DO require a ballast. Make sure. Don't just arbitrarily eliminate the ballast.
Click to expand...
I hear you. Google is saying it does not need one. I'm not sure how accurate that is though
 
Eddy Hoover said:
I hear you. Google is saying it does not need one. I'm not sure how accurate that is though
Click to expand...
Did you google the part number? There are many different ones. Google. LOL
 
RustyRatRod said:
Did you google the part number? There are many different ones. Google. LOL
Click to expand...
I have a pn 8202. So it looks like it does not require one. With that said. I was thinking about it and I had the msd ignition box connected directly to the battery/alternator system. So the question is, being that the ballast and voltmeter have been changed out to no effect, what could be killing my voltage when I put it into gear, now that I am using the stock means of transferring power to the coil?

1695262012849.png
 
Eddy Hoover said:
I have a pn 8202. So it looks like it does not require one. With that said. I was thinking about it and I had the msd ignition box connected directly to the battery/alternator system. So the question is, being that the ballast and voltmeter have been changed out to no effect, what could be killing my voltage when I put it into gear, now that I am using the stock means of transferring power to the coil?

View attachment 1716144646
Click to expand...
Yup, that's correct. The 8203 does require one, but not the 8202. Cool.
 
Eddy Hoover said:
The T connects to the charcoal box
Click to expand...
The line going to the charcoal box should be a smaller line I think with a metered orifice, try just plugging it till you get it idling in gear without surg or stalling then hook it back up for a test.
 
25* initial is not excessive. Many GM cars wisely used manifold sourced Vac Adv, & idled with 24-26*. My GTO left the factory idling at 26*, 6* init + 20* VA, with a mild cam that was 200* @ 050.
 
Eddy Hoover said:
That is a good point. I don't know someone with a good box. If I try a couple things and I cannot fix it, I will work on getting the msd reconnected. It is a blaster 2 coil so I think you are right on not needing a ballast. How does one bypass a 4-point ballast (safely)?
Click to expand...

Bewy said:
25* initial is not excessive. Many GM cars wisely used manifold sourced Vac Adv, & idled with 24-26*. My GTO left the factory idling at 26*, 6* init + 20* VA, with a mild cam that was 200* @ 050.
Click to expand...
We're talking about Mopars here, not GM's.
 
Yes, & Mopars have pistons that go up & down & valves that open & close....just like other 4 stroke engines.
A Mopar 440 that I have recently tuned likes 44* at idle....
 
Below is from Mopar Muscle, Oct 2015.

Bit hard to read: 'Initial timing went from 15 to 26* while adding an inch of vac. ....a dramamatic gain in low rpm throttle response was realized..''
Read it & learn...

img284.jpg
 
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