ValiantRacing
Well-Known Member
Have you tried a different ignition system? do you run the red stuff?
Is there ever "never any more" ???
- Thread starter 318willrun
- Start date
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I went through a few ignition systems years ago and ended up staying with the one I built the car with, it's a Mopar performance msd 7 box. It's probably been 6 or 7 years since I tried a different one. I have a msd 6al2 box I bought years ago and never tried also.
Nothing wrong with big cubes either !
The goal for me is just enough and not enough.Nothing wrong with big cubes either !
Go fast and do break the block.
ValiantS
Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand the scope of the question so, I hesitated to reply. In any class racing, the goal is to eek everything and more out of the parts that are legal. These are classes where typically stuff runs better than it should. It's something I have always enjoyed trying to do whether it was a soapbox car, a friends car or my Valiant, etc... I think I did well relatively. With that said I feel the car would pick-up about two tenths more with some minor changes. So, in what I think the scope of the thread is about, in the case of my current combo, I'm probably done chasing the last bit out for a few reasons. One being, the expected results wouldn't likely advance my position in eliminations. So, the time 'wasted' in getting the last bit out of this combo is better spent on a better combo. With that said, if the current combo hadn't run near par with what I expected, I probably would be driven to figure out 'why'.
BVoelzke
Well-Known Member
It is good to get the most out of a combo and figure out why , I still try little things but its tough as my local tracks test and tunes are so crowded you barely get 3 runs in and on a race day you only get one time shot. When I dyno my motors we try a few things but most of the changes don't result in much of a gain since my car is slowed down from 10.80s to 11.50s more power isn't really a concern. I have ran 318s, 340s, 360s, 408 and my present 410 and have learned that more cubes and strokers are they way to go especially when it comes to torque. A quick example I had a 30 over stock stroke 360 ( Magnum block ) , 11.5 to 1 compression with my current W2 heads , a 590 lift mech. cam and it made 549 h.p. and 450 tq. We recently put a stroker kit in it : 585 / 595 lift cam , same W2 heads and intake at 9.5 to 1 compression on pump gas it made 547 hp and 520 tq . I also had a 408 R3 block with Indy 360 -1 heads and intake 590 lift cam 9 .5 to 1 compression on pump gas made 527 hp and 502 tq. what was surprising to me was the torque ! I ran 4.88 gears with the 11.5 to 1 360 and a 410 gear with the 408 and my 60 ft times were the same due to the torque. I now run a 4.30 gear with my 410. 11.50 at 115 60 fts 1.48 - 1.51 depending on track shallow ...since I deep stage on a pro tree 1.58 - 1.61
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BSB67
Well-Known Member
This.
Without a clear explanation of what is: “a set combo” and “no major changes”, it’s a bit of a circular discussion.
Tuning with no part changing, has a limitation, in the context of being controllable and measurable. Ie - diminishing returns, coupled with unquantifiable returns per change.
The nature of street cars makes it more difficult than with dedicated race cars. When I get down to about +/- 0.03 sec. change in et, I cannot conclude if a car/engine change actually made a difference.
Just meant to keep tuning on a combo without changing the majors. In other words, can we get (or how far can we get) if we stick to the "basic combo" and can we reach the limitations, if there are any limitations. And no, starting with a 318 and ending up at 512 is not sticking with the basic combo and tuning it LOL And you don't tune factory J heads up to Trick Flows. LOL
That being said about the j head at some point if the goal is "faster" one would step up to a better cylinder head, then there's the point that trickflows need to be bettered.Just meant to keep tuning on a combo without changing the majors. In other words, can we get (or how far can we get) if we stick to the "basic combo" and can we reach the limitations, if there are any limitations. And no, starting with a 318 and ending up at 512 is not sticking with the basic combo and tuning it LOL And you don't tune factory J heads up to Trick Flows. LOL
The thing with bigger and better more expensive parts is tuning, but you better get it right and quickly. More power requires more care. Tuning stock stuff is fun and much more forgiving than a balls out race engine
Then once you replace j heads with trick flows, or a 3.58 crank with a 4" crank, you have lost the potential of the combo. Like the title says, "Is there ever... Never any more??" We KNOW if you buy nice performance pieces you go faster. But how fast and is there a limit without those pieces and just tune, tune, tune baby???
How about stupid simple: What does a Plymouth Duster 318 2bbl 2.76 gears run, and what can it run? If you put a 408 w/trick flow heads you cannot say my 318 2bbl ran 11.50's LOL
Then once you replace j heads with trick flows, or a 3.58 crank with a 4" crank, you have lost the potential of the combo. Like the title says, "Is there ever... Never any more??" We KNOW if you buy nice performance pieces you go faster. But how fast and is there a limit without those pieces and just tune, tune, tune baby???
That 408 with TrickFlow heads in Duster better run faster than 11.50! Or you got some serious tuning to do!! lol
My point is you have to tune, tune, tune baby no matter what you're building. From what I'm reading it seems that buying better parts takes no tuning.Then once you replace j heads with trick flows, or a 3.58 crank with a 4" crank, you have lost the potential of the combo. Like the title says, "Is there ever... Never any more??" We KNOW if you buy nice performance pieces you go faster. But how fast and is there a limit without those pieces and just tune, tune, tune baby???
I have a 470, Andy f set the mark as far as I'm concerned with all his testing and the 2 combos he put forward of his 470.
I'm chasing that using way less expensive parts and doing my own stuff like welding up the runners on my tunnel ram and porting for a better designed runner. Making sure things like my cylinders were notched so the intake mixture didn't slam into the deck before be lit. Making more compression, fitting the tunnel ram correctly and port matching...there's a lot things that have to be done for optimization even when you buy parts.
Honestly I don't want to tune a 318 2bbl with those gears lol and I respect the fact that you do and get it done. That being said if I had too I would and it would most likely be very enjoyable.
As I read this i am reminded of the reactions to my buddies 68 roadrunner. Running at Rockfalls wis in trophy class, he had a well built 400/451. Guys would stop by with thier hopped up 440 cars ( that he just smoked)and ask what motor he was running. He would say the 383, and of course the reaction was funny as all get out! "Nobody runs a 383 in the low elevens!" Just a small fib mind you, a little extra stroke and bore!
For some reason you are seeing this as "no big cubes or performance parts allowed...lol" I'm just saying once you have your combo, what is the limit?. Regardless if it's a 225 1bbl or a 572 crate engine. Can 22.00 become 19.50? Or for the 572 can 6.40 become 5.90? Without the splurging of "more parts". LOL
Okay, yeah that's what I was seeing lol.
I have a above average IQ but reading comprehension isn't part it lol
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Yes. If You work long & hard on Your combo, there is a point where You'll run out of improvements, how close You are at the outset will determine how long that takes.
It's said that after the 1st 'clean' pass w/a new combo, (no fuel starvation, ignition/misfire problems, etc.), there's ~a full second left in E.T. I have seen a number of cases that back that up.
10-4 !
With the avatar, I started at roughly 11.8 and have now run a best of 11.07. So call it 3/4 of a second.
BSB67
Well-Known Member
Just depends on how familar you are with the car, and how close you are to begin with. A lot of guys pick up a bunch initially just by learning to drive it. Not sure that counts in this context.
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