Just Changed Dog Food! Canidae

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Not good, Know I lost my laughing buzz. I hope your sister has another, But something tells me she found it and sent it to you.
Time for a time out you two, get on the couch in the shop and I mean know Maxi and Merlin :angel12:

I picked up the shreds when I walked in the door and said "Bad Dogs!", they both scattered. They know they did wrong.. I opened the back door and out they went for an hour. ;-)

I never did find what sister it came from though, envelope was about gone. I'll figure it out. It's kinda funny now, but I was not to happy after work today, lol.
 
Here is a good web page that talks about what is good and bad in dog food; http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/dog-food-comparison.html

They rate the food from 0 to 5 scoops with zero being don't feed it to a dead dog and 5 being you can't do better. It is amazing that all the brands everyone knows like; Purina, Iams, Eukanuba, Science Diet, Pedigree, etc are all zero or one scoop. The reason they get these poor ratings is they use "meat by-products" (basically beaks and feet and uncontrolled waste from human food processing), corn (dogs can't digest it properly), other grain by products (processed grain like brewers rice that has removed the good stuff and leaves the no nutrition husks) or preservatives that are band in human food.

I switched to Blue Buffalo food (a 5 scope rating) about 9 months ago and what a difference. My Dachsund always had dandruff and a dry scratch coat; gone his coat is soft, shiny and no more dandruff. My terrier mix always had stomach issues and hasn't thrown up at all since making the switch. My Italian Greyhound has a bad heart (the vet can't believe he is still a live) and it beats about 3 times as fast as the other two and no matter how much he was fed always looked like we were starving him, since the switch he has gained weight and looks like a healthy IG.

All the brands that have been mentioned in this thread have a bunch of formulations and you need to select the best one for your dogs life style. The Taste of the Wild bag that was shown is a very high protien food, not the best choice for a dog that spends most of his time as a couch potatoe. When I first was trying these new foods I bought a bag of Wellness Core (another 5 scope brand) which is a no grain high protien (>30%) food and my three were off the walls. I settled on formula that has about 20% protien and the dogs all have plenty of energy with out bouncing off the walls.

These foods are much better than the run of the mill foods and you need to feed them less or they will gain weight.
 
Thanks dgc33. I just checked the protein content of the blend I'm using. It's at 24%, which is just a hair less than their previous crappy food at 25%.

It's interesting that you mention the stomach issues. Zero problems with the new food, no gas, runny stools, barfing, etc. Then again, they eat mail and remote controls with no adverse effects.
 
I have never looked that up, I do have a friend that has two and they are from two different mothers and one is over five years old and doing real good and the young one is about 3 and plays and looks great, I have herd of Dalmatians having these problem.

I sure hope not, That would hurt homecloned and he is so happy with Chase, I think that is his name.

I'm sorry! I had a brain fart. It's Great Danes, not Boxers, I don't know what I was thinking. Glad we all have some good healthy dogs here now!
 
got this from the link HEMIED posted, it is one of the best articles on determining the quality of pet food that I have read



How do we assess the foods?

Choosing a good dry pet food isn’t that easy. If you’ve ever read the ingredient label on a pet food, you’ll notice that there is one crucial bit of information missing: how much of each ingredient is in the food. That really is crucial information. As we’ve already noted, most dry pet foods are based on grains or other plant material. But the animals we’re feeding them to are carnivores and should be eating a diet that is mainly made up of meat…

You’ll see the crude fat and crude protein content of the food listed on the labelling, but that alone does not tell us very much. Grains contain protein too – but it’s far less bioavailable protein for a carnivore that lacks the digestive enzymes needed to digest plants. Protein derived from meat represents a far higher quality and species-appropriate diet for a carnivore than plant proteins ever can be. What’s the point of a protein if it cannot be properly digested?

Fortunately, it is possible to make an educated guess as to the quality of a pet food. Until or unless the percentages of the ingredients are required to be shown on the ingredient lists or manufacturers disclose that information voluntarily, it can only ever be an educated guess or assessment, based on the knowledge that we do have. But that is far better than relying on the advertising hype.


What we look for in pet foods:

Meat, meat and more meat products. Cats and dogs are carnivores, and a species appropriate diet for these animals must be based on meat. They have no evolved need of carbohydrates in their diet. Grains are in pet food because they’re cheaper than meat products, and are needed to hold the kibble bits together. Not because they’re species-appropriate nutrition for a carnivorous mammal.

Meat and fat products that are identified by species. If the species cannot be identified, neither can the quality. We suggest avoiding any products that use unidentified “meat”, “animal” or “poultry” products in their foods.

Where grains are used, we look for good quality whole grains. Avoid those products that make prolific use of grain fragments (think floor sweepings) in their foods – these are nutritionless fillers.

Whole fruits and vegetables are appreciated, especially where these replace grains in the foods.

Organic ingredients are appreciated – but note above about the need for a food to contain a high proportion of meat. Organic grains are very nice where grains must be used, but they are no substitute for meat content.

What we avoid:

Foods containing any form of by-products, most especially those of indeterminate origin (“animal”, “poultry”, etc).

Artificial colours, flavours, sweeteners or preservatives – especially those believed to be carcinogenic or that are banned from use in the human food chain. In dog food, principally these are BHT, BHA, Ethoxyquin, Propyl Gallate. NOTE: Some ingredients, usually fish products, may contain artificial preservatives that are not disclosed on the ingredient list; if they are not added by the manufacturer, they are not required to be listed. We therefore look for assurances by manufacturers using ocean fish products that their foods do NOT contain any artificial preservatives.

Meats and fats that are not identified by species. These could literally be anything, and are almost certainly of very low quality.


Practices and ingredients to be aware of:

Splitting

Splitting is a common practice on dog food labels and it pays to be aware. Ingredients in dog food are listed in order of their weight – so the heaviest ingredients, those that make up the largest portion of the food, are listed first.

Splitting is when a manufacturer lists different components of the same ingredient as separate items. For example, chicken and chicken meal are both chicken products. Brown rice, white rice, rice, rice bran, rice gluten and rice flour are all parts of the same ingredient – rice. Yes, there is a difference in the nutritional aspects of the different forms of rice – brown rice is more nutritious than white rice, and grain fragments are far lower quality and less nutritious than whole grains. But the issue around splitting is in determining quantity.

The reason for the practice of “splitting” is essentially to make the ingredient list look better. As an example, when there are large quantities of rice in the food, a manufacturer might choose to list the component parts separately. That way, although the total rice products may make up, say, 55% of the food and meat only 25%, it is possible to list the meat product first and then three or four individual rice products that each separately weigh less than the meat product. Combined, however, rice makes up more than double the chicken content.

Manufacturers don’t disclose the quantity of ingredients on the labelling though. So you have to make the best assessment you can from the rest of the information given. Thus, while seeing the component parts of rice (or any other ingredient) is useful for determining the quality of ingredients used, when you’re trying to assess quantity you should always mentally add those component parts together.

Splitting can also serve to increase the level of confidence one has in the quantity of particular ingredients used. When you see two forms of the same meat ingredient, chicken for example, at the head of an ingredient list that can help you come to the reasonable conclusion that there is indeed a reasonable amount of chicken in the food.

The ingredient “chicken” means fresh chicken which is inclusive of its water content. Now water content is of course removed in the process of making dry dog food. It is thus likely that the true position of that ingredient (sans water) should be much further down the ingredient list than is stated. But if that were the first ingredient in a food, and the next ingredient is “chicken meal” then the practice of splitting can tell us that there was sufficient chicken meal in the food for it to be rated ahead of the first grain despite a portion of the ingredient split off. This serves to increase our confidence that the true first ingredient is that named – a form of chicken (meat product).

Be careful though ;) That would not necessarily be the case if the grains behind it were also split, or if there are a lot of different grain products in the food.

Some examples:

Example 1:
Chicken, chicken meal, turkey, turkey meal, brown rice, chicken fat….

That looks excellent. There are “four” meat ingredients at the head of the ingredient list. And only one grain. Once we factor in the removal of water content (which is about 80%) from the ingredients “chicken” and “turkey” then it is likely that these would be more accurately placed somewhat further down the ingredient list. A more likely “true” ingredient list here is thus: chicken meal, turkey meal, brown rice, chicken fat, chicken (sans water), turkey (sans water).

So how does it look now? Actually, still very good. The first two ingredients are still meat products, and there are two further meat products in the food. There is only one grain ahead of the fat content. We could have a very high level of confidence that there really was a decent quantity of meat products in the food.

Example 2:
Chicken meal, brown rice, white rice, rice bran, rice gluten meal, barley, chicken fat…

At first glance, that also looks fairly good. The first ingredient in the food is a meat product – in meal form too, so we don’t have to factor in the effects of water removal. But is it really the first ingredient? Actually, we can’t be confident that it is. Once we add all the different forms of rice together, they may well outweigh the chicken meal. And in fact they probably do, by a significant margin. Note that there’s another grain right behind the rice products in the ingredient list too. In short, it is impossible to be confident that the food contains an adequate amount of meat.

While not strictly an example of splitting, you should also take note of foods that use a lot of different grain products, and mentally add all those grains together to compare against all meat products.

For example:
Chicken meal, brown rice, barley, oat groats, ground corn, chicken fat, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, fish meal, millet…

No splitting going on there, so we can read that as a true list. But we should look carefully at the overall meat versus grain content. The first ingredient may be meat, but in this case it is followed immediately by four different grains ahead of the fat content, and three more grains after that. There is one further meat product (a meal) but it’s 9th on the ingredient list. It is likely that the combined grain products outweigh the total meat products by a large margin. This too is a grain heavy food.

The manufacturers won’t tell us the exact proportions of the ingredients that go into the products, so it is really a case of making an assessment based on the information you do have. And when it comes to dog food, it is wiser to err on the side of scepticism than of blind trust.

What DFA does NOT do:

The ratings and reviews on this site are based solely on the ingredients the manufacturers state they use in the foods and other information given. We make no assessment of their ethics, involvement in food recalls, animal testing, phenobarbitol 'scandals' or other practices, believing this to be a matter for the individual consumer. If you wish to include such considerations in your food purchase decision, we would encourage you to research widely prior to purchase.
 
Thanks dgc33. I just checked the protein content of the blend I'm using. It's at 24%, which is just a hair less than their previous crappy food at 25%.

It's interesting that you mention the stomach issues. Zero problems with the new food, no gas, runny stools, barfing, etc. Then again, they eat mail and remote controls with no adverse effects.


The good brands of food are much more digestable so your 24% protien is likely more like a crappy food with 30%.

One other thing I didn't mention before is; my Dachsund is a real chow hound and would so fat he wouldn't be able to walk if we didn't watch what he eats closely. One of the things he used to do when he got a chance was eat the other two dogs stools. Since the change in food he hasn't touched a turd. Again that has to do with the dogs ability to digest the food, if it passes right through undigested it still smells like food to them and is attractive to eat. The good stuff is more completely digested and they are not interested.

There is a Petco next to my wife's office and she gets the Blue Buffalo there, they have other holistic foods too. It's not cheap either but with three dogs under 20 lbs a 15 lb bags lasts a couple of weeks so its not bad. If you have a Petco card you get a free bag every 5th or 6th you buy which takes some of the sting out of the cost.
 
This is a very delicate, and touchy subject , since we want to be the best we can be to our dogs. Well most of us anyway, dogs are a gift from god IMO.

We were sold on Cannadae by our vet, and pet supply store, thought we were doing the best we could do.

Then when that China thing happened with the dog food, I started questioning everything, then I found this site. At the time Cannadae was rated very low, but it is much higher now, they have some in the 5 star catagory.

We have now had our very special Toto on Innova reduced fat adult food for about 3 years. He is peppier, happier, and has slimmed down a lot.

We quit buying the packaged treats as well (corn syrup) and bought a dehydrator. We dehydrate chicken breast chunks, and give them to him for treats. That way we know he isn't getting sea gull soaked in chinese anti freeze. :D

Whew! The Canidae ALS is rated 5 stars. :thumleft: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2034&cat=3

Edit: Uh oh, I read a little closer and this food end up being demoted....
 
I'm sorry! I had a brain fart. It's Great Danes, not Boxers, I don't know what I was thinking. Glad we all have some good healthy dogs here now!

Shelties can have that problem when you breed a Blue Merle Sheltie to another Merle. You stand a 50/50 chance of the pups being born either deaf or blind or both. The puppies should be put down along with the breeder. When I picked up Jake I made dam sure the father wasn't a Merle only the mother. Here's a before and after on Acana food.:smile:
 

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The good brands of food are much more digestable so your 24% protien is likely more like a crappy food with 30%.

One other thing I didn't mention before is; my Dachsund is a real chow hound and would so fat he wouldn't be able to walk if we didn't watch what he eats closely. One of the things he used to do when he got a chance was eat the other two dogs stools. Since the change in food he hasn't touched a turd. Again that has to do with the dogs ability to digest the food, if it passes right through undigested it still smells like food to them and is attractive to eat. The good stuff is more completely digested and they are not interested.

There is a Petco next to my wife's office and she gets the Blue Buffalo there, they have other holistic foods too. It's not cheap either but with three dogs under 20 lbs a 15 lb bags lasts a couple of weeks so its not bad. If you have a Petco card you get a free bag every 5th or 6th you buy which takes some of the sting out of the cost.

The more digestable thing makes sense. I'm hoping I have less "Pick up duty" than I did before.

I'll check out the local Petco too.
 
Shelties can have that problem when you breed a Blue Merle Sheltie to another Merle. You stand a 50/50 chance of the pups being born either deaf or blind or both. The puppies should be put down along with the breeder. When I picked up Jake I made dam sure the father wasn't a Merle only the mother.

A long time ago a friend's dad started breeding Dalmations and the majority of the dogs were blind and deaf. it was really a sad deal.
 
Excellent link Dave and excellent article Cafe, it just goes to show that there is some real **** out their being disquised with catchy commercials and being sold as dog food when in reality you wouldn't even feed it to your mother in law, Well maybe I would come to think of it.:smile:
 
Demonseed,

i just found a reletivley local store that sells Acana. About 62 bucks for a 30 pound bag. They also sell Orijen which is made by the same company. They have Canidae for 54 bucks for a 44 lb bag and Taste of the Wild for 52 bucks for a 30 lb bag.

One thing I did notice is that all the 6 star brands had huge amounts of protien, up in the 40%+ range. I think my dogs would eat my house from the inside out if I fed them that, lol. Acana has 33%, and is rated at the top of the 5 star list and like you say, is 100% grain free. I did find that Canidae also has a grain free formula that they say "is a top performer in the 5 star category". I just really like the 44 lb bags too. http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2038&cat=3
 
Yea Joe in your case I'd stick with the Canidae, a lot cheaper and probably just as good as the Acana. I couldn't believe the mark up for the Acana, up here (where it's made) I'm paying $38 for a 30# bag. Someone down there is making an obsene profit.
 
No Nutrena dog foods on that list at all. It is not a very big company maybe thats why. Would of been nice to see how it stacked up.
 
Yea Joe in your case I'd stick with the Canidae, a lot cheaper and probably just as good as the Acana. I couldn't believe the mark up for the Acana, up here (where it's made) I'm paying $38 for a 30# bag. Someone down there is making an obsene profit.

Probably UPS. ;-) The Taste of the Wild stuff is much cheaper by Mike too, but probably because it's made in Missouri which borders Arkansas.

No Nutrena dog foods on that list at all. It is not a very big company maybe thats why. Would of been nice to see how it stacked up.

Let me see if I can find it Burnt. BTW, what does the Canidae go for in your neck of the woods?

Nope can't find it...
 
Nutrena does a full line of animal food. Cows, Pigs, Horses, Chickens, Dogs Cats ect. Not a very big company.


I will have to ask my wife on the canidae. I don't sell it her but she works down at Big Horse feeds in Temecula and they do down there.
 
I have never looked that up, I do have a friend that has two and they are from two different mothers and one is over five years old and doing real good and the young one is about 3 and plays and looks great, I have herd of Dalmatians having these problem.

I sure hope not, That would hurt homecloned and he is so happy with Chase, I think that is his name.

I'm sorry! I had a brain fart. It's Great Danes, not Boxers, I don't know what I was thinking. Glad we all have some good healthy dogs here now!

Thank you Mike.
You are not totally wrong with that RustyDusty. There are cases of deafness and being blind in white boxers but Chase is fine so far. Some of the reasoning and/or concern is that they want to classify them as albinos which have been known to have problems. White boxers are not albinos. They just have two parents who have the white gene.
I am making my own food(I love to cook) for Chase ramcharger but I have requested some samples from TOTW.
 

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Hey Dog Owners! Just thought I would let you know that after two weeks of Canidae the head shaking ear scratching thing is gone. The dogs coats are shinier and softer and I had to let Merlins' collar out one notch. The "Pick Up Duty" is easier as their stools are smaller and harder.

All in all, it was definitely a change for the better.
 
Hey Dog Owners! Just thought I would let you know that after two weeks of Canidae the head shaking ear scratching thing is gone. The dogs coats are shinier and softer and I had to let Merlins' collar out one notch. The "Pick Up Duty" is easier as their stools are smaller and harder.

All in all, it was definitely a change for the better.

Thank you for the heads up, it's time to change Buddies food.
No problems on the 4 Health and the Taste of the Wild but I do need a back up and it's good to change their food I think :mrgreen:
 
Hey Dog Owners! Just thought I would let you know that after two weeks of Canidae the head shaking ear scratching thing is gone. The dogs coats are shinier and softer and I had to let Merlins' collar out one notch. The "Pick Up Duty" is easier as their stools are smaller and harder.

All in all, it was definitely a change for the better.

That is good news.
 
Well my doggy has been having this ear twitch and redness of the skin for some time. The vet explained it was prolly an allergy to something in the spring and fall. We've noticed it's become worse and worse as time went on. Including during the middle of winter so I'm stacking it upto a food allergy.

I'm in Windsor, ON area and I'm needing a few suggestions for a new food. I can get Taste of the Wild at the local pet food store and I have a Co-op not far from here. I really don't know what the co-op sells though.

Please help Brodie, he's scratching and twitching up a storm!

Riddler
 
Well my doggy has been having this ear twitch and redness of the skin for some time. The vet explained it was prolly an allergy to something in the spring and fall. We've noticed it's become worse and worse as time went on. Including during the middle of winter so I'm stacking it upto a food allergy.

I'm in Windsor, ON area and I'm needing a few suggestions for a new food. I can get Taste of the Wild at the local pet food store and I have a Co-op not far from here. I really don't know what the co-op sells though.

Please help Brodie, he's scratching and twitching up a storm!

Riddler

Taste of the Wild is some of the best dog food you can get. My dog loves the Bison and Venison flavor but won't touch the Salmon
 
We feed our two GSD's "Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Lamb and Brown Rice".

As some may remember, my little guy (all 85# of him) has seizures. They frequently happen right after eating, which led us to think that it was food related. It may or may not be, but we changed from NutroMax, or one of their other brands, after being told of a change to their formula.

Natural Balance is a limited ingredient food. It is listed as a 5-scoop in the provided link.

I was thinking of changing, when I saw this thread. I went yesterday to buy a new bag, as with Ramcharger, they sure don't last long. Natural Balance is about $52 for a 28# bag. I compared it to the Canidae, which sells for about $55 for a 35#bag. Over all, they are very similar as far as I can tell. There are more listed ingredients in the Canidae, some of which I'm not sure of, so I chose to stay with the Natural Balance.

My big guy (120#) will eat anything, so he isn't an issue.
 
I'm trying out a CDN company product called Horizon Legacy. So far he's eating it and seems to enjoy it.

Riddler
 
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