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Hi guys. Sorry to here about all of the crappy weather.
I was on the phone with a guy I bought a Gran Fury from and a discussion of the "cash for clunkers" bill surfaced. He was saying how this car had missed it by one year. Of course, this conversation sparked my curiosity of the bill. I found this Wikipedia article interesting.
Car Allowance Rebate System - Wikipedia
 
Bodyperson said:
Hi guys. Sorry to here about all of the crappy weather.
I was on the phone with a guy I bought a Gran Fury from and a discussion of the "cash for clunkers" bill surfaced. He was saying how this car had missed it by one year. Of course, this conversation sparked my curiosity of the bill. I found this Wikipedia article interesting.
Car Allowance Rebate System - Wikipedia
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I remember when they did that, I didn't read the whole article but a lot more than I knew.
Scraped a lot of cars and seems like a waste but people bought a lot of new cars and helped the new car manufactures like GM out and they still moved to China. Figures..
 
Fred Scigliano said:
I remember when they did that, I didn't read the whole article but a lot more than I knew.
Scraped a lot of cars and seems like a waste but people bought a lot of new cars and helped the new car manufactures like GM out and they still moved to China. Figures..
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When you get the time, you should read all of it. Gets kind of crazy. Typical gov. Kind of like arming the Contras. lol
 
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been stripping today Charlie and went through a few razor blades. Even the fiber glass nose came off without to many gouges.
 
Bodyperson said:
Look into SPI. They get great reviews. Barry is the ****. Haven't gone there yet but I think I will.
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Just finished reading clunkers and what a mess that turned out to be. Sure glad our government knows what to do to screw us up....
 
Fred Scigliano said:
Interesting I didn't look up the cost but that web site sounds like a top notch epoxy and clear.
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Prices are great. No mixing. Just fleet colors. Been following for a while. Lots of good info on prepping and spraying. Great customer service as far as I can tell. Free shipping
 
Bodyperson said:
Prices are great. No mixing. Just fleet colors. Been following for a while. Lots of good info on prepping and spraying. Great customer service as far as I can tell. Free shipping
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That's why I hang out here good friends and good info.
Thanks BP will check into it.
 
Bodyperson said:
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/
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Now that I am getting to the body work part on the 65. Looking at there web site, it seems like they don't recommend metal etch before epoxy priming, and they stat to lay the filler over the epoxy primer. Whats your's and Fred's recommendation on that. Its against every thing I was told.
 
grumpy old fish said:
Now that I am getting to the body work part on the 65. Looking at there web site, it seems like they don't recommend metal etch before epoxy primin g, and they stat to lay the filler over the epoxy primer. Whats your's and Fred's recommendation on that. Its against every thing I was told.
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All epoxy manufactures do not recommend acid based products under the epoxy. (metal etch). Filler over or under makes no difference to me. Depends on the situation. The bottom line is, bare metal must be primed with a direct to metal (DTM) primer within 8 hours or it needs to be re-sanded.
 
The reason for epoxying under filler is mostly a restoration thing. A braid the whole project and prime within eight hours. Now you have years to do the body work until you expose the metal and now we are back to my previous statement.
 
Bodyperson said:
All epoxy manufactures do not recommend acid based products under the epoxy. (metal etch). Filler over or under makes no difference to me. Depends on the situation. The bottom line is, bare metal must be primed with a direct to metal (DTM) primer within 8 hours or it needs to be re-sanded.
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So is (DTM) primer - Epoxy primer. The shop here that sells PPG products, tells me to to etch and sand to bare before filler. being my back ground is a construction/maintenance guy. I don't have clue, So I have always relied on them for info.
 
Bodyperson said:
The reason for epoxying under filler is mostly a restoration thing. A braid the whole project and prime within eight hours. Now you have years to do the body work until you expose the metal and now we are back to my previous statement.
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I diffidently get the 8hr thing living here in the NW. you leave any metal bare here overnight, and becomes orange with rust.
 
grumpy old fish said:
So is (DTM) primer - Epoxy primer. The shop here that sells PPG products, tells me to to etch and sand to bare before filler. being my back ground is a construction/maintenance guy. I don't have clue, So I have always relied on them for info.
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It sure can be confusing if you let it. Its hard to find an informed counter person. DTM properties can be characteristic of several products. Even in the construction industry.
Rust never sleeps. It forms immediately on metal. Some to lesser extent and iron being one of the fastest. Aluminum is a little more forgiving. Gold being the least.

Quite a few years ago they took lead out of our paint products. That was a game changer as the lead made everything stick. Today we need extra steps to insure adhesion. Some people think "self etch" primer is the answer to everything. I call it a crutch to being too lazy to sand stuff. The metal adhesion products and procedures are exhausting.

SAND THE **** AND PRIME IT WITH A DTM PRODUCT WITHIN 8 HOURS. The sooner the better. Soda blasting changes the PH of the metal and now you have a whole different problem.
 
Charlie's right Craig used Etch primer for many years and is OK in some applications but not on what your doing. Epoxy is far better and like he said an acid base Etch primer can leave an acid on the metal and will eat through the paint like on rust pits.
I used bondo before epoxy on mine because after sanding the bondo off you get bare metal again and it should be re epoxied.
Pulled bondo out of my Scamp that was done back in the 70's or 80's and a piss pour repair job with worm holes and no rust under the bondo so should be good.
 
I try to simplify. Priming can be several products. Polyester, urethane, epoxy, acrylic, alkyd are all resins. Don't hold my feet to the fire here but they all have different properties and applications that can overlap and work against or together depending on application.

The beauty of epoxy is that it is a non sanding corrosion protecting primer with a large window as to when it needs to be top coated. You spray it on properly prepared substrates and you have days to put a filler primer or paint on it. Epoxy doesn't make a good filler and should be used as a corrosion barrier for subsequent fillers. EDIT: Or paint
 
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Fred Scigliano said:
Charlie's right Craig used Etch primer for many years and is OK in some applications but not on what your doing. Epoxy is far better and like he said an acid base Etch primer can leave an acid on the metal and will eat through the paint like on rust pits.
I used bondo before epoxy on mine because after sanding the bondo off you get bare metal again and it should be re epoxied.
Pulled bondo out of my Scamp that was done back in the 70's or 80's and a piss pour repair job with worm holes and no rust under the bondo so should be good.
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Thanks you guys, I can see I wont be buying any more metal etch. I have never used metal etch primer, it has always been a clear to yellow PPG product they have sold me to wipe or spray on and wipe off. Probably just because they smelled a novice.
 
grumpy old fish said:
Thanks you guys, I can see I wont be buying any more metal etch. I have never used metal etch primer, it has always been a clear to yellow PPG product they have sold me to wipe or spray on and wipe off. Probably just because they smelled a novice.
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PPG product line is exhausting though they are all good products. They do have their place but if you can sand bare steel with #80 sandpaper and clean it with virgin lacquer thinner and a lint free cloth and get epoxy on it within 8 hours (the sooner the better), you got it made in my book.
 
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