Moral Dilemma: The Drink

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64Lucy said:
Bud, they dont have to understand your belief. They do on the other hand have to respect your decision to not drink/party. If they don't, are they truly your friend?
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They do actually respect my beliefs the more I think about it. They accepted that I don't drink a while ago; last night we left a party and my friend said, "Do you even enjoy coming to these things since you don't drink?" I said "No I just go because it's what you guys are doing," then he said "Well I'm sorry man I wish there was a way for you to have fun, that must be a b*tch." So they definitely feel for me in that regard and accept the fact that I don't drink.

daredevil I think you're right but only to an extent... I visited Jordan this summer and hung out with my 24-year-old cousin and his friends, no 'intoxicants' involved (besides cigarettes and hookah lol:banghead:) but we chilled at a cafe and socialized and gawked at the abundance of honeys (yes you can do that there, girls just don't dress/act slutty like here) while listening to live Arabic music. It made me think of how American culture *might* have been back in the 50s and before when everybody was more conservative. The problem is today's norm is to get as drunk as possible so you can hook up with someone you don't know, which I think is gross and wrong and is the main thing that goes against muslim beliefs.
 
Why do people that indulge in things such as drugs or the hardcore online gaming or that kind of thing always say "if you haven't done it you probably wouldn't understand"..?

WHAT do I not understand about it? How good it is? How much whatever it is helps life in general? It can't be that good if you want to get away from it.

I haven't taken psychodelics(sp), but I know what they do in general...help the user "understand" things better and see everything more vividly..in other words trip out.

Maybe I'm just too pragmatic but my belief is that people who seek things like this to alter their perception of reality, or just get whacked out, lack something emotionally that helps humans deal with real life.

Me, I just don't need that. If I have stress in my life, I just physically go somewhere else because I know full well that if I got whacked out or tripped out or passed out, when it was all over, the problem will still be there. You can't stay whacked out forever but you can sure stay 100 miles away forever, if you wanted to.

Just my .02
 
Just my .02...I had a group of friends (7 of us) that I hung out with ever since Junior high school. Very close knit group and we stayed close long after High School. Some members of the group were in a local band here in AZ and drugs/alcohol were available in abundance. I was hitting the bars with these guys long before I was legal. I've done the drugs and I still enjoy my beer and Jagermeister, but today I am only close with 2 of them.

Life happens and people go there own way. There is nothing wrong with going "your" way and doing what is best for you. If they are truly your friend they will understand and you can still hang out when/if yall feel like doing so. Try suggesting more stuff like the Cafe you mentioned and you may find find that some would prefer that kind of scene. If they don't, well no big deal there either. You have compromised plenty by going to the parties or whatever while they drink, they should be willing to do the same for you.

In the end though it is all about what's best for you in your life. If the "friends" can't deal with that then they don't need to be around you anyway. You've done your experimenting and judging by your post/questions here, have already decided that this isn't the scene for you. So figure out what is and run with it! If your friends are truly your friends they will be happy for you and possibly tag along from time to time.

Good luck to you with all of this, but as I and others have already said "It's all about you and your happiness here!" There is nothing wrong with wanting to live the life that is right for you!
 
Show me your friends and I'll show you your future...

all illicit drugs are illegal..... breaking the law is itself immoral in my mind
 
TylerW said:
Why do people that indulge in things such as drugs or the hardcore online gaming or that kind of thing always say "if you haven't done it you probably wouldn't understand"..?

WHAT do I not understand about it? How good it is? How much whatever it is helps life in general? It can't be that good if you want to get away from it.

I haven't taken psychodelics(sp), but I know what they do in general...help the user "understand" things better and see everything more vividly..in other words trip out.

Maybe I'm just too pragmatic but my belief is that people who seek things like this to alter their perception of reality, or just get whacked out, lack something emotionally that helps humans deal with real life.

Me, I just don't need that. If I have stress in my life, I just physically go somewhere else because I know full well that if I got whacked out or tripped out or passed out, when it was all over, the problem will still be there. You can't stay whacked out forever but you can sure stay 100 miles away forever, if you wanted to.

Just my .02
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I don't think it's something that should be necessary to get by, more like something 'extra' that opens your eyes to things you never thought of before. The way it helps is it puts things in perspective and allows you to come to grips better with reality, instead of taking you away from it like alcohol, etc. I had a lot of anxiety and negative/angry feelings built up inside of me when I was younger. After my first 'experience' my outlook on life totally reversed, it was like my mind was forced to change. I used to resent my parents, now I thank God all the time I have them and not someone else. I used to always think "Why me? Why does being different like this have to be so hard?" Once I tripped I realized I shouldn't ask why, I should just be thankful I was blessed with the good insight to want to be different and independent from the "crowd." Would I have realized this on my own without those drugs? Probably, but it would've taken a lot more time suffering in my own angst and feeling disillusioned about the future of my life. I bet I sounded like an arrogant *** for saying "you probably wouldn't understand" but the effect it has on your mind is so complex and difficult to describe. Even after doing tons of research in the psychology of it I still had no idea what to expect. I'm not proud of the fact I did those things but I definitely don't regret it either and I think it helped me get to where I am today.
 
Just convert to Catholic. That way you can just stay drunk.
 
So, after a year and 1/2 down the road from the origional post, has your life and friends changed any?

Have your thoughts or beliefs changed any?
 
My Christian convictions prevent me from abusing alcohol. I can see having a drink once in a while, but abusing it is not wise...
 
Talk to your old friends. Tell them you are getting uncomfortable hanging around with them when they are in a state. Drunk/stoned idiots is a pain in the *** unless you're on the level and having the same dumbed fun they are. And, since purity is a big thing in Islam, you cannot partake in either, and it's making you uncomfortable. Tell them you're all for hanging out with them, as long as it's not all about getting schlitzed... After all, there's more to life. Unfortunately, your friends are at that age where booze is cheap and plentiful and finally legal to buy, and it's a quick and easy way to have "a good time..." They'll come around (with a bit of encouragement) after they've had their fun with the stuff... Unfortunately, sometimes (not very often, but often enough) it takes something extreme like sexual assault, blackout mugging, drunk driving wrecks, or DEATH to force some to grow up... In the extreme case, even that doesn't work, and they just delve deeper to hide in the inebriation...

If you're considerably religious and are finding more religious friends, that's GREAT!! You can hang with them and create new bonds until your old friends are ready to sober up and have real fun; like bungee jumping, skydiving, auto/bike racing, etc... Stuff you can't do when all schnockered up... Make it look like they're having a shart time and you're having the time of your life, and they'll come around; lead by example. :)


- CK
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
The issue is that my friends are all atheist/agnostic and have little to no religious background so as you can imagine they party pretty hard, and I have a difficult time making them understand why I believe what I believe..
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Why do they have to understand?

I'm an agnostic and I live in the heart of the bible belt, I'm also 19. Southern Baptism is alive an well here and it seems like in this area, ignorance over-powers religous tolerance in some.

Thing is, it's not about understanding, it's about acceptance.

Point I'm getting at is, if they can't accept it whether they understand it or not, its a huge problem.

My best friend is an extreme southern baptist and I don't understand his religion whatsoever outside the fact that it says I'm going to hell (I'm not concerned with that). But we don't have to understand what it is, we accept that our religious beliefs have instilled different morals upon each other and we should not infringe upon each other's differences in those aspects.

EDIT: BTW, a great way to put down pot, try searching for a job that doesn't pay minimum wage. That's what broke my addiction to that ****. And in my opinion, these days, **** is exactly what pot is.
 
Stay away from it. While drinking is not all negative, there are no positives to drinking. PERIOD.

...and for those who will become defensive about it, Yes, I do drink, no, not every day. I have nothing against it personally, except for the idiots who insist on driving after drinking, or those who shouldn't drink, because they become violent, or sick, and those who can't control it. These people should not drink, at all. IMO.
 
I looked at one of your original posts where you said your moms family is christian. That has no bearing on weather or not you drink or become an alcoholic, if this is what you are inferring from that post. Some people are weaker than others in this regard. I am christian myself, tho i have studied the tennants of many religions. I find it admirable that you have found something "religion wise" to keep you on a righteous path.

Im not posting this to preach to you, however lots of religions get corrupted, polluted, and twisted by folks. I have read certain things in the koran that give me pause. Im not sure if you know this but as a convert to islam if you decide you no longer want to be a muslim and convert to some other religion islam now conciders you to be an apostate and it is ok for other muslims to kill you for it.

It is also concidered ok according to the koran , and is the duty of all muslims to lie to the unbelievers. An unbeliever is somebody who is not muslim, however it is a sin against Allah to lie to another muslim.

The koran also preaches that there are 3 different ways to handle unbelievers. They can either be subjugated to islam (be subordinate to it) , converted to islam, or killed.

It also preaches that a sure fire way into mecca is to kill unbelievers

there are some great ideas in this religion, and if you find salvation in it then more power to you, but there are many ominous undertones in it as well. These main things are the reasons non muslims living in muslim countries are treated so awful.

Myself as a christian, i prefer a benevolent God who tells me to believe in him and i will live with him in heaven forever, a God who doesnt say i have to kill others who dont believe as i do to get to heaven, but rather says show them Gods love, share with them Gods love for us, and come with me and join me in heaven.

Again i say find your salvation where you can, just do your research, and you will find that these things i have mentioned in my post are written in the koran. Im not so sure i would follow a religion from a "supposed prophet" who along with his followers were actually the barbary pirates of the desert.
 
Wow dang that was quite a while ago, I appreciate that people have remembered it for this long lol... Things have gotten a lot better I still hang out once in a while with my friends who drink and stuff, mostly local concerts and such but I have other things to do as well. I spend a lot of weekends wrenching on my Duster or Jeep which is always a nice way to pass the time. I think it was after I started this thread I finished the 360 swap in my '70 Duster (March 2012) and I've been enjoying that. School has been keeping me pretty busy as well I have one year left after this semester towards my mechanical engineering degree which has me really amped... Senior design takes a lot of time and effort but it involves designing and building a vehicle which is badass no matter how you see it lol.

My views on drinking haven't really changed I still haven't touched the stuff but I've learned to accept it for what it is and not judge people (including myself) too hard in general. Over the last year I visited some family on the east coast (Maryland and Pennsylvania) and it was really helpful to talk to them after not seeing them for several years.


And lastly moparmat2000 I appreciate the "heads up" about Islam but unfortunately most of what you said is stretching the truth quite a bit. Yes there are several instances worldwide where non-Muslims are persecuted but there are just as many, if not more where they all live in total peace and harmony. You just have to understand that what Americans are exposed to in regards to the Muslim world is just a teeny-tiny, highly skewed glimpse of what really goes on. Lying to ANYONE is a BIG sin in Islam, in fact the last Friday sermon I went to (I try to go every week) talked about the punishments after death for those who were liars (to Muslims AND non-Muslims) and it's pretty scary stuff lol.


BTW please don't call our prophet a barbary pirate, if you actually knew the model human he represents and the amazing things he did for everyone around him whether Muslim or not I don't think you'd call him that lol. In fact the knowledge of his life and actions is what has inspired me to remain true to my faith. But please let's not get into a religious debate because the last couple ended up pretty bad lol.
 
I feel for you. I do drink my self but only now and then. I have many friend who don't and I won't drink around them out of respect. Same with smoking. There are tons to do with out drinking. We go camping, longboarding, surfing, hiking, just hanging out playing games and lots of other things. My dad was a horrible alcoholic and was not around most my childhood. When he was it was never good. I believe it is fine in moderation. If it effects your friends, family or work you have a problem. I also use to smoke weed in highschool but haven't for years. My family still does as it helps allot with anxiety that is a huge problem with our family. It is legal here now as I'm sure you know. Stay strong your doing fine.
 
As stated before there really are no things good that come out of drinking. I learned that the hard way. I am sure I am going to get torn up for this big time but the mind altering drugs can be useful if your trying to understand things from another perspective but they should be used as a last resort and if it all possible, with an elder. Keep an eye on your friends and help them make the right choices but if you start drinking at 20 its going to be a slippery slope. I have seen a lot of kids who start drinking while they are in college get into a lot of trouble. Then there are kids who started drinking in high school who are starting to learn the proper way to drink by the time they are in college. I would advise against drinking just becuase I have lived the negative aspects of it but if you do decided to drink you have to respect it and learn how to do it properly.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
(yes you can do that there, girls just don't dress/act slutty like here) QUOTE]

i hope you were not referring to my daughter...

if you actually knew the model human he represents
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some of us totally disagree with that. i'd rather not get into what i'm referring to... and like you said this is NOT the forum for religious discussions and this whole thread should be locked, deleted. too much room for "backdoor" insults going both ways.
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moparlover said:
MOPEkidD-3 said:
(yes you can do that there, girls just don't dress/act slutty like here) QUOTE]

i hope you were not referring to my daughter...



some of us totally disagree with that. i'd rather not get into what i'm referring to... and like you said this is NOT the forum for religious discussions and this whole thread should be locked, deleted. too much room for "backdoor" insults going both ways.
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Sorry that was a gross generalization on my part, when I said that about girls I had been going through some tough times because of the crowd I was hanging around with and was very frustrated how all the girls I came across were like I described. I now realize there are good girls everywhere it's all just about knowing where to find them.

BTW I know exactly what you're referring to in regards to the comment about Muhammad. Trust me I have heard every bit of slander towards him there is; "child-molester", "murderer", etc. None of this is new to me by any means. But the fact remains for me that whether or not that junk is true there is still thousands upon thousands of pages detailing his actions and words, showing him as the most just, most patient, and most pious man whom I strive to model myself after. I know the Muhammad I follow is the exact opposite of the horrible "Antichrist"-type figure many are led to believe he was. If that makes you feel better than go ahead and believe it, it doesn't matter to me the choice you make about what you believe.
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MOPEkidD-3 said:
moparlover said:
Sorry that was a gross generalization on my part, when I said that about girls I had been going through some tough times because of the crowd I was hanging around with and was very frustrated how all the girls I came across were like I described. I now realize there are good girls everywhere it's all just about knowing where to find them.

BTW I know exactly what you're referring to in regards to the comment about Muhammad. Trust me I have heard every bit of slander towards him there is; "child-molester", "murderer", etc. None of this is new to me by any means. But the fact remains for me that whether or not that junk is true there is still thousands upon thousands of pages detailing his actions and words, showing him as the most just, most patient, and most pious man whom I strive to model myself after. I know the Muhammad I follow is the exact opposite of the horrible "Antichrist"-type figure many are led to believe he was. If that makes you feel better than go ahead and believe it, it doesn't matter to me the choice you make about what you believe.
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the bottom line is:
all forms of religion worship a person that died and has had their grave discovered and their bones were in it, except one! Jesus Christ,!!
end of discussion!
if this stepped on some ones toes, so be it!!-=------------bob
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This is not the place to discuss your feelings towards what others believe. I hope a mod is keeping a close eye on this because it could get ugly really quick. The OP asked for our advice on drinking, we need to leave it at that. If anyone wants to discuss religion then there is a place for that under the N&P section. Back to the OP's question. Like I said before there is nothing wrong with drinking but I have seen is destroy a lot of lives, families, jobs, cars, and friends. Just be very very careful if you are going to do it.
 
doogievlg said:
This is not the place to discuss your feelings towards what others believe. I hope a mod is keeping a close eye on this because it could get ugly really quick. The OP asked for our advice on drinking, we need to leave it at that. If anyone wants to discuss religion then there is a place for that under the N&P section. Back to the OP's question. Like I said before there is nothing wrong with drinking but I have seen is destroy a lot of lives, families, jobs, cars, and friends. Just be very very careful if you are going to do it.
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Thanks doogievlg I agree we should stay on topic... At this point I'm no longer having a "dilemma" about drinking, I understand the pros and cons and I know I would probably drink if I wasn't as concerned with my beliefs as I am. I used to feel insecure about my beliefs but not anymore, heck it has been a year and a half for me to think about it since I started this thread after all lol. Thanks for all the supportive comments everyone, they were very helpful and I'm not feeling bad about it anymore.
 
You should be 100% in whatever you believe in. If others agree with what you believe in or not is their opinion. Just have fun and do what makes you happy and be responsible about it.
 
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