Mr. Norm has passed....

[dtcmmlf]

Opening a can of worms in this thread..... Adminz, fire extingisherz pleaszzzzzz

First, sadly, Mr. Norm has passed! Man was a genius!!!! ( Tribute to a Friend: Celebrating The Life of Mr. Norm Kraus - Mopar Connection Magazine | A comprehensive daily resource for Mopar enthusiast news, features and the latest Mopar tech)

Norm Krause is why all us Dart freaks can drive the GSS 383 and 440 powered Darts, (440-quasi factory Dart.)

Chrysler NEVER produced, for public sale, a 440 powered Dart! PERIOD!
And Mr. Norm was the reason the GSS was built by Chrysler since he fitted (not Chrysler) a Dart at Grand Spaulding Dodge with the first 383, before MOPAR did! (read the above link).

Now I am going to hear the whine of the " I have a Dart with fender tags and documents and such". You do! Got it, but read on. MOPAR did not produce it. Grand Spaulding Dodge did. Norm worked a deal with Chrysler to have certified inspectors, on site in Chicago, to cert the vehicles road worthy so they could be legally sold and insured in the State! Chrysler produced the required 50 Darts with the 440 in them from the factory to qualify for NASCAR racing requirements, if anyone wanted to race them in the circuit. They were titled RACE CAR ONLY and never 'legally' sold to the public. I verified this, though I cannot find the email now, of course, with the retired GM of the Hamtramck plant in Michigan years ago in a discussion on another forum, which was a heated affair!!!!

When I saw the factory GSS, I immediately asked the question, 'Damn, why not a 440? same profile as the 383????"

(And I grew up during this time. I am 73 years young and still dinking with MOPARs!!! Only cars I have ever bought. Lots of Blue Oval Diesels trucks and such, but cars, just Moparz....)


Another link for your reading pleasure: VIDEO: A Quick Look at Mr. Norm's Grand-Spaulding Dodge - Timeless Muscle Magazine

So bring on the heat! But verify, please, your tongue lashing data before you do, please!
Adminz- being nice here!!! Hahahahaha.....
Hawk

 

[dtcmmlf]

I posted my message on the for E bodies site and got jumped on lightly.... Sooooo
I will post my response to that individual, as a proof of principle thingy. Yep, I knew about the M coded Darts for one year, 69. But, well, read below.

Well, that was polite enough. I expected some heat. Death threats at the very least!!!!!

So, here goes....

First. READ Grasshopper!
I stated that 'The factory' never produced a 440 powered Dart. Period (except for NASCAR - See below)
Below is an excerpt from an article, by Hemmings that states Chrysler did not produce these vehicles, Hurst did. Something akin to what Norm Krause was doing. Different location, same drill.

The below was excerpted from this Hemmings article (https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1969-dodge-dart-gts-m-code)

The 440-powered 1969 Dodge Dart GTS was a homologation special, so that Dodge could lay waste to the NHRA's Factory Super Stock classes. Mr. Norm pioneered the fit in a '68 Dart, called it GSS (Grand Spaulding Sport, named for his performance-leaning suburban Chicago dealership), and built more than 50 of 'em; Dodge liked it so much that they co-opted the idea a year later. The Grand Spaulding boys once again engineered it, in deference to their initial efforts, but Dodge chose to send the system out to Hurst Performance research, who could better handle the volumes required. A special K-member, new motor mounts, a couple of block modifications to accept the new mount, plus new exhaust manifolds, oil pan and heat shielding made up the conversion

I said NONE at the factory..... cept for the NASCAR circuit

Next, I could not find that old NASCAR rule book, so I choose the one for this past year, thinking that the rules are stiffer and requirements be tougher since the speeds are sooo much greater!
And I figure this will suffice to make my point.

Dart stats:
wheelbase in inches for a 69 dart. (I highlighted the 108 inch requirement for todays NASCAR.....)

Width : 69.7 in | 1770 mm.
Height : 53.6 in | 1361 mm.
Wheelbase : 111.0 in | 2819 mm.
Front Track : 57.4 in | 1458 mm.

NASCAR Rules:
Section 21 - NASCAR Modifieds (2021)

SAFETY EQUIPMENT (See Section 3 MINIMUM SPECIFICATIONS for additional requirements)

All entrants will be required to run the rules package as described in section 21 or may declare a rule book of choice from the following options.
• Meridian Super Stock 2018 (may use super stock or “modified class tire & wheel”)
• Additional options may be made available as per Meridian Speedway discretion.

21.1 Frame & Chassis 21.1.1 Any OEM Grand American Modified style frame and chassis may be used. Must be complete and tech approved.

21.1.2 An approved manufacturer fabricated front clip may be installed. Must meet the intended OEM specifications as provided by the approved manufacturer and shall meet the prescribed templates as per tech. The current approved manufacturers are Thompson Motorsports & Howe Racing Enterprises. 21.1.2 Minimum wheelbase 108.00 inches (no tolerance). Measuring procedure will consist of the front tires being turned to set the left side wheel base at 108” the right side will then be measured as under or over. 21.2 Roll Cage 21.2.1 Must consist of continuous hoops, minimum 1.75 inch O.D. tubing, with minimum wall thickness of 0.095 inch for main cage, frame-mounted in at least six places, low carbon or mild steel recommended. Must consist of a configuration of front, rear and top hoops connected by tubing on sides or side hoops. 21.2.2 Driver’s head must not protrude outside cage with helmet on. Roll cage must be securely supported and braced with minimum one cross bar in top halo. 21.3 Door Bars 21.3.1 All driver side door bars and uprights must be minimum 1.5 inch O.D. with 0.083 (0.095 recommended) inch wall thickness. Minimum three driver side door bars, parallel to ground and perpendicular to driver, and welded to front and rear of roll cage. 21.3.2 Steel door plate, 18 gauge or 0.049 (0.125 recommended) inch minimum thickness, must be securely welded to outside of driver side door bars and cover area from top door bar to bottom.

So, I stand by my initial message. I am not the Oracle by any means, but I can read and DIGEST what I read!!!!
I will let it go at that. (Admins can put the extingushers back!) Have a good (better) day!

Hawk

 

[4spdragtop]

What's your point, besides being a week or so late on Norms passing?

 

[JDMopar]

I think you're confusing NASCAR and NHRA. NASCAR has always been roundy round racing....and NHRA is drag racing. Who in their right mind would make a circle burner with a 440 in it? Too nose heavy.

 

[Ddaddy]

I think the true A Body Mopar fans already know the reality of this and are well versed in the history.

This isn’t news to me anyway...