MSD Controller compatibility issue - 6.1 problem

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Rat Patrol

Rat Patrol

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Nothings ever simple.......

Just got off the phone to MSD - it seems the 6013 ECM is not suitable for the 6.1 because the 6.1 has a different # of crank keys to the 5.7.

This puts me back to 1st base on choosing a controller.

What is the simplest least expensive option to use with the factory harness ?

I am only running the cam, crank and MAP SENSORS as it will be carb induction.

If you are running the MSD on a 6.1 I'd be interested in how you got the timing set ?

I am really pissed about this ... I figured the MSD was easily the best solution for my needs - but now I predict I'm going to have to she'll for a high dollar controller. Aaaaaargh,!!!!,!
 
Are you talking about the reluctor wheel??????? on the back of the crankshaft????? I think the 6.1 has more teeth than the 5.7,I know when we ordered my new sroker crank from Callies I called msd and they told me to make sure they put the 5.7 reluctor wheel on it.That sucks that they don't have a app for the 6.1--Strange--CHeck out the f.a.s.t box for controlling the timing--Steve
 
Yes it would be the reluctor whell.

Is the reluctor wheel external or internal to the crank case?
 
Just looked at the msd hemi 6, and it says it works with the 6.1 and carb, so wtf is msd telling you!
 
The 08-older and 6.1 hemi both have the same reluctor wheel... 31+1...
 
5.7 hemi said:
Just looked at the msd hemi 6, and it says it works with the 6.1 and carb, so wtf is msd telling you!
Click to expand...

Check the MSD catalogue on line - it says not suitable for the 6.1 - this is why I called them.

Summit says ok for both - but MSD seem pretty certain it's no good for a crate 6.1'
 
Hmmm, MSD's website clearly states that it will not work with the 6.1L, don't understand why as the both have same wheels.

Simplest thing to do is return the MSD and call FAST they have a similar product at a similar price that will work with the 6.1.

http://www.compperformancegroupstor...re_Code=FS&Product_Code=301314&Category_Code=

Shop around, a lot of resellers sell it cheaper than the FAST website.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Just checked msd's website, and your right, not for the 6.1. I must have found the info on a distributors website (like summit or jegs or ect), my bad, sorry about the mis info!
 
5.7 hemi said:
Just checked msd's website, and your right, not for the 6.1. I must have found the info on a distributors website (like summit or jegs or ect), my bad, sorry about the mis info!
Click to expand...

No problem - it was Moper on this site that alerted me to the issue. I fell for the summit thing too.
 
Joe Dokes said:
Hmmm, MSD's website clearly states that it will not work with the 6.1L, don't understand why as the both have same wheels.

Simplest thing to do is return the MSD and call FAST they have a similar product at a similar price that will work with the 6.1.

http://www.compperformancegroupstor...re_Code=FS&Product_Code=301314&Category_Code=

Shop around, a lot of resellers sell it cheaper than the FAST website.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...

"Joe" u read my mind -

From your post and the Jousi's responses on the XFI thread I've got it sussed - P# 3013142 - Stand alone Coil on plug Ignition controller for the 6.1 Hemi.

Comes with its own harness.

Ebay has the best prices - over $100 bucks less than FAST.

Looks like I'm good to go again...Phew!!
 
You could always just swap the wheel off on the crank, but you'd have to pull the pan at the very least if not the whole crank, so I could understand being reluctant (har har) about changing them out. I think it's a one piece unit, so you'd probably have to pull the whole crank.
 
That's what I've heard. I think the 5.7 one is still good to some pretty high power levels (500-600 is what comes to the top of my head), but I think some people have probably pushed it past that fairly consistently.
 
If memory severs me correct both the 6.1L and 5.7L crank reluctor wheels from 2003-2008 have the number of teeth and spacing. That is why I can't figure out why MSD's ignition box won't work. I know the sensor for both the cam and crank are the same.

The only difference I can think of is the 6.1 reluctor wheel is held on by 4 bolts while the 5.7 is held on by 3. Which "shouldn't" make any difference.

I'd love to hear directly from an MSD engineer or technical person the real reason it won't work, because based upon everything I know, it should work.

As far as cranks go. Hot-Rod did a test in which they had a stock bottom-end 5.7 putting out 700 HP at the crank. They had some engineers from Chrysler on hand who said that 500 was about the safe limit for the stock crank and rods.

Pure internet speculation says the Powdered metal 5.7 rods have a tendency to let go and ventilate the block north of 500 HP, allegedly the 6.1L powdered metal rods are good for 700? Again, no personal experience, though I am certain, that with a properly tuned motor you could probably exceed these numbers, at least for a while. While a improperly tuned motor might let go well below these number.

Detonation, regardless of power level will kill a motor.

Regards,


Joe Dokes
 
Joe Dokes said:
If memory severs me correct both the 6.1L and 5.7L crank reluctor wheels from 2003-2008 have the number of teeth and spacing. That is why I can't figure out why MSD's ignition box won't work. I know the sensor for both the cam and crank are the same.
Click to expand...

x2
 
Fwiw the guy I spoke with first, didnt know the answer - he had to ask someone else.

Maybe one of you guys could call the tech line and ask - see what answer you get?
 
I Called MSD and asked them the same question-they couldn't give me an educated answer.
The engines have the same amount of teeth on the reluctor, so it makes no sense. I went ahead and bought the MSD. The only issue was they use the 03-05 crank sensor connector, so I had to buy a sensor. Pluggedeverything in and it fired on the first crank. I have a 5.7 with a 6.1 crank and reluctor. I had the XIM module, and it had some serious backfiring issues. Also the XIM's timing curve/rev limiter cannot be programmed from a laptop unless you have the XFI fuel injection also. You have to open the back of the module and adjust the settings with DIP switches. The MSD software is very easy to use and has more features. It is also MUCH easier to wire.

Ed
 
boltone said:
I Called MSD and asked them the same question-they couldn't give me an educated answer.
The engines have the same amount of teeth on the reluctor, so it makes no sense. I went ahead and bought the MSD. The only issue was they use the 03-05 crank sensor connector, so I had to buy a sensor. Pluggedeverything in and it fired on the first crank. I have a 5.7 with a 6.1 crank and reluctor. I had the XIM module, and it had some serious backfiring issues. Also the XIM's timing curve/rev limiter cannot be programmed from a laptop unless you have the XFI fuel injection also. You have to open the back of the module and adjust the settings with DIP switches. The MSD software is very easy to use and has more features. It is also MUCH easier to wire.

Ed
Click to expand...

Oh wow!! Now my head hurts!

Couple of questions..don't go away!

1 - Is yours an early or late 6.1?

2 - Have you checked your timing with a gun? Did it hold steady at idle and at WOT?
 
Oh yeah, I had a similar problem with the crank sensor being different on my block than the plug that was on the MSD harness, but that's easily fixed by just getting a different sensor. That may have to do with what harness you buy as well. MSD has one for the old style coils with wires or the newer ones that run both plugs on the same cylinder. The plug for the crank sensor may change with which harness you get. Not that it makes any difference, but I think the 6.1 reluctor wheel is also thicker than the 5.7 one.
 
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