So i'm thinking about entering the unknown with some help from some buddies, one is a general fabricator. My 72 dart swingers roof is shot to all hell and i don't want to give up on this project since I already have a lot of time invested in it. I'm looking for some tips and tricks from the mopar gurus on this site. any advice would help, such as how to keep the roof in place well welding ect. I've found a complete donor roof and want to jump in. Help!
need some roof replacement techniques
- Thread starter trbodrt
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SleeperScamp
Well-Known Member
Go back and look at my restoration thread. I used just the roof skin on my Duster.. I have never done anything like this before so if I can do it anyone can.. Good luck..
At this point i'm not sure if it is better to just use the skin or replace the whole top, It seems there would be less welding replacing the whole top, but at the same time it may be pretty difficult to square it and weld it.
Here are some pictures of the roof skin I put on my Mustang. I would suggest just doing the skin. You can punch holes for welding or do as I did and use a large panel adhesive. I actually prefer the adhesive to welding as you can cover all of the bare metal with the adhesive and it is corrosion resistant. Also sparks and interior can be a problem unless you are willing to remove the entire interior.
The holes in the roof skin are good when using the adhesive also. It's a technique called "pinning" Helps hold the panel. Also you don't want any clue where you have to do filler work like the a and c pillars. Those you should still weld.
The adhesive I used was called duramix at the time, but now I believe 3M bought it. I usually use a bead around the entire roof structure, then a bead around the new panel. To cover the bare metal completely I use an acid brush.
Also on a side note, if there are any cross braces another adhesive should be used. It is a vibration dampener. You don't want to use anything else as the regular adhesive "grows" and will heave the roof up where you glue it.
The interior is already gutted including dash and steering column and front windshield, so i guess that just leaves the rear glass. I think you guys are right as far as just doing the skin, cutting into the structure may not be good, especially for a first timer, anyone have pictures where the spot welds are?
1BadDodge71
FABO Rice Hater
i agree.Skinning it will be easier.chopping and sectioning a roof is alot of work .good luck!
my self I would cut the top off and put another on 12 hours later you will be rideing..puting a used skin on is a lot of work I have dune it both ways..but thats my apinion.....Artie
scampy72
Well-Known Member
i would brace it the same way as doing a top chop. before cutting anything weld in cross braces inside the car to keep it square then cut the top. make "X" 's with the braces on both side and on the back and front inside the passenger compartment. this should keep everything square while cutting and welding then when your are done with everything cut out the braces
There's no way that changing the entire roof will be easier or faster than just changing the skin.
To change the skin, all you have to do is drill out the spot welds and pull the roof skin off. To put it back on, especially if you have a stock donor, you just need clamp the skin down to channels and inner structure and spot weld it back on. Invest in a good spot weld cutter and this won't even take a full day. You don't have to worry about the body or roof going out of square, and the welding is super fast since you're just doing spots. And when you're all done, it will be nearly impossible to tell it was done, since it will be the same process as the factory.
To change the roof, you need to brace the entire body to keep it from flexing. Once that's done, you'll need to cut the roof off. This part may be faster than drilling all the spot welds, but keep in mind you'll want the cuts to be straight and level so the new roof will fit. Once that's done, you'll need to position the new roof in place. This will be harder, because the roof will flex and because you won't have nearly as many good clamping spots. Finally, you'll have to do all the welding. You'll have a lot more welding to do, as you're going to have to weld around all of the pillars. Not just one side either, you'll need to go all the way around the A pillars, not to mention the sheet metal on the B pillars on the outside, and then the inner structure on the inside. When you're welding the sheet metal you'll have to be very careful, as you have lot of ground to cover. Plus, you also have to line up the edges. If you didn't cut straight, you'll have gaps, and filling gaps while welding sheet metal is pretty much impossible. So, not only are you doing a lot more welding, but you're doing work that's harder, and much slower, to do. Finally, now that you're done with all that welding, you'll have to grind the welds smooth to get your windshield to fit properly and so the welds won't show when you paint. This step is completely unique to changing the whole roof, since if you just do the skin the spot welds are hidden in the factory locations.
I've chopped a top before, its a lot of work. The skin will be a TON easier, faster, and will have a much better chance of turning out right. I'll be doing this exact same thing on my bronze dart. I have a donor roof too, and there's absolutely no way you'll catch me changing the entire roof.
To change the skin, all you have to do is drill out the spot welds and pull the roof skin off. To put it back on, especially if you have a stock donor, you just need clamp the skin down to channels and inner structure and spot weld it back on. Invest in a good spot weld cutter and this won't even take a full day. You don't have to worry about the body or roof going out of square, and the welding is super fast since you're just doing spots. And when you're all done, it will be nearly impossible to tell it was done, since it will be the same process as the factory.
To change the roof, you need to brace the entire body to keep it from flexing. Once that's done, you'll need to cut the roof off. This part may be faster than drilling all the spot welds, but keep in mind you'll want the cuts to be straight and level so the new roof will fit. Once that's done, you'll need to position the new roof in place. This will be harder, because the roof will flex and because you won't have nearly as many good clamping spots. Finally, you'll have to do all the welding. You'll have a lot more welding to do, as you're going to have to weld around all of the pillars. Not just one side either, you'll need to go all the way around the A pillars, not to mention the sheet metal on the B pillars on the outside, and then the inner structure on the inside. When you're welding the sheet metal you'll have to be very careful, as you have lot of ground to cover. Plus, you also have to line up the edges. If you didn't cut straight, you'll have gaps, and filling gaps while welding sheet metal is pretty much impossible. So, not only are you doing a lot more welding, but you're doing work that's harder, and much slower, to do. Finally, now that you're done with all that welding, you'll have to grind the welds smooth to get your windshield to fit properly and so the welds won't show when you paint. This step is completely unique to changing the whole roof, since if you just do the skin the spot welds are hidden in the factory locations.
I've chopped a top before, its a lot of work. The skin will be a TON easier, faster, and will have a much better chance of turning out right. I'll be doing this exact same thing on my bronze dart. I have a donor roof too, and there's absolutely no way you'll catch me changing the entire roof.
I completely agree. A uni-body car relies on the roof and pillar support for a large part of its structural integrity. That thing will sag so fast when you do a roof replacement it's not funny. Skin it, and be done with it. You could pull two skins off two sections in 4 hours, fit it and weld it in a day. Done deal. If there is nothing wrong with the inner structure why cut it apart? No way a home hobbiest can get the same strength replacing the entire roof section. A skin will just slip right into place also. Less fitment problem areas.
well I hade a big come back for this but I deleted it for the sake of argument but I will say you have to show Me............Artie
67plymouth
Member
I've only replaced one top, on my 70 charger with bracing, measuring,measuring again, and again, cutting, welding,eating lunch grinding reinstalling both front and back glass it took 6 hours. just my 2 cents
If you would like to do it this way email me I will get your # and call you I worked In body shop for 21yr and have dun a few....Artie
More power to you guys then. I didn't mean to suggest that it can't be done that way, or even that skilled folks couldn't do it quickly. But regardless, its more work. If you can do the whole top like that in a day, I'd be willing to bet you could skin it in half that time.
Plus, there's a different skill level involved. Skinning the roof barely requires welding skills. If you can work a drill and have a vague idea of how a MIG welder works you can skin the roof without issue. Taking the top requires accurate measurements, accurate cutting, and much better welding skills. If done right and everything lines up, I guess I can see how it could be done in a day by a competent tradesman.
But there's a lot more things to go wrong. Even small errors in measuring or cutting can make this job a lot harder. And if you're that person that can sorta run a MIG welder, it doesn't take much to move it beyond your skill set. If the body or roof gets tweaked, the cuts don't line up with the donor piece, or you blow some holes in the sheet metal with the welder, the whole process will take a lot longer.
So maybe I should clarify. For the hobbyist, at least in my opinion, the skin is far easier, and much less risky to accomplish. Even if you do screw it up, you've probably only ruined a roof skin. If the body sags while your swapping the whole top, you're in a bad way.
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