Ok I started grinding and now help

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gdizzle

gdizzle

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You paint and body guys, I got brave today and started the task of removing the drip edge, got that off. Revealed the seam sealer and rusty and peeling paint. I removed the seam sealer, and started scraping out the rusty stuff. How rust-free does it need to be in order to put seam sealer back on it? And do I prime it first before I put the seam sealer in?? see picture or the edge.

now question 2: I also decided to attack a crack that has developed on the rear upper panel . So i used a wire wheel (2 in) and went after it, and it turns out to be a big bondo section. so I kept going until I hit metal. most of the bondo seems to have become unattached to the metal, due to rust, so I kept removing it until it looked like it was adhered to the metal. so this is maybe 1/4in deep. So do I prime it, then fill it? Or is there some sort of rust inhibitor I need to spray first?
My end goal is to be able to take it somewhere for a good clear coat , and let it look sorta patina and worn. so I am trying to fix all the flakey, peely, rusty parts before I take it in.
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Question 1: it has to be 100% rust free before you prime it and then refill the seam sealer. Otherwise it’s just a time bomb.

Question 2: Bondo directly over rust. Holy crap. So, the only right way to do it is remove all of that bondo, then all the rust, then primer, then paint. And if the last guys put a 1/4” of bondo over rust in one spot, they did it everywhere, so, repeat for the whole car.

If you leave that the way it is, the rust will eventually bubble that bondo. Or the whole mess will just fall into the car when the rust destroys the panel.

The whole thing needs to go bare metal, or you’re just wasting money on paint that will fall off in a few years.
 
I'd chase that filler till I had it all out, see if the sheet metal can be worked back to where it should be. Filler needs to go directly to clean bare metal.


Alan
 
Wow that was my car 25 years ago! I stated to fix one spot and when I was done I stripped the whole car and had a box that was 12 lbs of paint and bondo. Hope yours isn't that bad. I didn't have the rust just dents.
good luck.
 
Bottom line is the rust needs to be ground out or converted or that area is just going to repeat. Ospho is a decent choice for conversion, there are others. If you aren't prepared to do it all at once, get what you can ground off and then converted, primed, fill, paint. Realize it is likely to fail before too long. Not every car is going to be a nut and bolt resto, I get that. Mine is in process of getting back on the road and I'm concentrating on stabilizing the rust where I can to limit the damage until I have the time and space to do it right.
 
You guys are giving me great advice and I thank you all. So if I do a rust convertor can I bondo directly ontop of it? Or does it need to be primed? The videos i see about rust convertors, looks like it take several days to weeks for it to complete? I should add I do not have a garage and the car is in my driveway. I am in So Cal, so weather should not be a problem.
 
Update: I spent some more time today going after it. So I am finding that I can sand through top grey paint, into the Red paint which is a cool wornout look. However in some sections there was some previous damage. so what am I looking at here?
My main question, can I clear coat directly over metal? directly over old bondo? directly over new bondo? Directly over treated rust?
This is a dent on the roof, near the drip edge. Looks like metal, brown, green, black, pink bondo, dark brown,yellow, green, red, grey.
Funny cause the color code on this car is supposed to be metallic silver which I cant find anywhere.
dart roof dent.jpg
 
gdizzle said:
Update: I spent some more time today going after it. So I am finding that I can sand through top grey paint, into the Red paint which is a cool wornout look. However in some sections there was some previous damage. so what am I looking at here?
My main question, can I clear coat directly over metal? directly over old bondo? directly over new bondo? Directly over treated rust?
This is a dent on the roof, near the drip edge. Looks like metal, brown, green, black, pink bondo, dark brown,yellow, green, red, grey.
Funny cause the color code on this car is supposed to be metallic silver which I cant find anywhere.View attachment 1715184182
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No, you can’t clear coat over bare metal. Not if you want it to last very long at any rate. Same for bondo, same for treated rust, etc. Clear coat is made to adhere to paint, paint is made to adhere to primer. Sure, you can clear over that stuff if you want, but it won’t stick very well. That will cause imperfections in the clear, and a short lifespan because of poor adhesion.

In addition, clear coat is not a sealer. Sealer primers help protect the metal and keep rust out. Clear won’t do that as well. So, not only will the clear coat fail, it won’t protect the metal as well.
 
72bluNblu said:
No, you can’t clear coat over bare metal. Not if you want it to last very long at any rate. Same for bondo, same for treated rust, etc. Clear coat is made to adhere to paint, paint is made to adhere to primer. Sure, you can clear over that stuff if you want, but it won’t stick very well. That will cause imperfections in the clear, and a short lifespan because of poor adhesion.

In addition, clear coat is not a sealer. Sealer primers help protect the metal and keep rust out. Clear won’t do that as well. So, not only will the clear coat fail, it won’t protect the metal as well.
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I hear where you're coming from and I definitely think you're right but ultimately you can do whatever the hell you want to it's your car.
 
j par said:
I hear where you're coming from and I definitely think you're right but ultimately you can do whatever the hell you want to it's your car.
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Well, you can do anything you want as long as the paint actually sticks. I have cleared over bare metal, I guess I shouldn't say it "can't" be done. But the lifespan on that clear will be short.

I just see it as a waste of time and money. For what the materials cost, I would want them to last more than a couple years. All the "patina" cars that get clear coated on all those "cool" TV shows look good for awhile, and that's all those shops care about. They'll look good long enough for them to sell the car, at which point they don't care anymore. And a couple years later the car will look like crap when the clear fails due to improper prep.

And, that does assume there's no paint reaction between the modern clear and any of the old paint or bodywork. Sometimes it works, sometimes everything bubbles and peels before everything even dries.

If you can't afford to do it right the first time, you definitely won't be able to afford to do it twice. For the OP's car, if he's not ready for a full repaint I'd spot prime those spots and leave it all alone until he can afford to take it to bare metal and paint it, or the bodywork and paint on there now falls off and something has to be done.
 
Another thing to consider is that rust conversion coatings use phosphoric acid, and only convert the top of the layer of rust, essentially encapsulating the active rust under a layer of neutralized, converted and captured rust. Products like EvapoRust (when used properly) will get rid of the rust, as well as making an electrolysis unit, but short of doing that, you're just prolonging the inevitable, which is more rust removal. It's a noble task, trying to save your car from rust, but if you can't eliminate it, you're basically just wasting your time, and most certainly your money.
 
72bluNblu said:
Well, you can do anything you want as long as the paint actually sticks. I have cleared over bare metal, I guess I shouldn't say it "can't" be done. But the lifespan on that clear will be short.

I just see it as a waste of time and money. For what the materials cost, I would want them to last more than a couple years. All the "patina" cars that get clear coated on all those "cool" TV shows look good for awhile, and that's all those shops care about. They'll look good long enough for them to sell the car, at which point they don't care anymore. And a couple years later the car will look like crap when the clear fails due to improper prep.

And, that does assume there's no paint reaction between the modern clear and any of the old paint or bodywork. Sometimes it works, sometimes everything bubbles and peels before everything even dries.

If you can't afford to do it right the first time, you definitely won't be able to afford to do it twice. For the OP's car, if he's not ready for a full repaint I'd spot prime those spots and leave it all alone until he can afford to take it to bare metal and paint it, or the bodywork and paint on there now falls off and something has to be done.
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Like I started with I agreed. My front fenders have been that way for three years and on my way to a car show tonight. I thought that primer wasn't good for holding out moisture? Just asking, I'm obviously NOT a body (person) LOL
 
Harley Davidson didn't have a problem using clear over bare metal, but it may have been clear powder coat.
 
It looks like the OP is going for the "clear over patina" look. I say go for it, Ive seen it done. Cant say it is meant to last too long though, but hell, just clear over it again right? I would straighten/ pull dents, you don't want 1/4 inch thick bondo anywhere on the car that you can help. Do the best you can with what you have, its all any of us can do, and we all are on different budgets/timelines etc.
 
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