pin type versus sliders

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mopowers

mopowers

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Why have I read that pin-type disc brakes are less desirable than slider type?

I found a 11.75 pin-type disc setup at a junk yard. Is this worth putting on a street strip car even though they are the pin-type calipers?

Would you recommend 11.75 discs on a street/strip car with skinny front tires, or is that too much braking power up front?
 
boosted or non?
and theres no such thing as too much braking power.. mind you i have heard of not enough! thats just my opinion

Cerwin
 
The question is for a 66 Dart with non-power brakes. Are 11.75 better than the smaller rotors on a car with skinny front tires?
 
the larger 11.75" disc set up will NOT fit under 14" wheels just so you know,

and mostly from what i have read the advantages and disadvantages are nothing to be worried about and its basically boils down to personal preference...

Do you see yourself running normal width tires on the front? or are you a regular slim front runner?

i would imagine them fitting and working just fine. but im unsure at the moment on the size of what im running on my 66 for disks..
 
I'm plannig on putting 15's on it when it is back together. I also plan on using a adjustable proportioning valve. I'm not sure of what size front tires I'm going to run though. It will be driven on the street though, so I'm not going to go with TOO skinny of a tire. Do you think the 11.75 rotors are overkill? If they brake too much, can't I just adjust the bias more to the back?

I just want to be able to slow it down from 125mph at the track.
 
ok lets take wieght into concideration as well if thats the case.. what size motor do you run? and i dont see to much of a problem with bigger brakes depending also again on how it stops now.. are you upgrading our brakes to the 11.75? or going disk from drum?..

Cerwin
 
The car is a 66 Dart GT. The motor will be a 470 low deck stroker. Hopefully somewhere between 550-600 HP. It will have a 8 point roll bar, frame connectors, 8 3/4, etc. I just bought the car in feb and started stripping it down right when I bought it. It has little drums up front right now with a single circut master cyl. It will have a two bolt aluminum master with a adjustable proportioning valve when done. I haven't decided on 11.75 or the smaller discs yet. Mainly, I just want to be able to stop the car from 125 at the track without locking up the fronts. Are the 11.75's too much?

Here are some progress shots of the car since I bought it:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mopowers2/my_photos
 
thats a nice car since i drive one just like it.. same colour and motor.. ill be implimenting a 360 into the engine bay and installing the 8.25 posi

my oppinion..
11.75 disks will be fine.

Cerwin
 
They definetly will be overkill for the small tires but like you said you can just turn down the front bias to keep from skidding them. They will also add more front weight to your car which is very detrimental to quicker ET's. The smaller discs will weight less which will improve ET's over the 11.75" and will stop the car just fine. I have a '65 Valiant 2dr sedan that runs low 11's at 122 and I am using the stock 9" drums on the front and 10" drums on the rear, car stops fine. The main problem with drums is that they do not respond well to heat. If I make a bunch of back to back runs the braking power is a lot less because of the heat from the multiple runs but still stops, just requires more pedal effort. If I had discs I would not have that problem, but stock discs are heavier than the drums so I don't want to go backwards on the ET thing by adding weight. When I go to discs I am going to use the aftermarket ones because of the weight savings. The bottom line is do you what to spend money on heavier brakes to make your car go slower when you don't need brakes that big? Most people spend money to make their cars faster not slower but everyone is different. The 11.75" brakes will work but will be a waste because you will not be able to use them to their full potential.
 
Thats a really good point! I guess smaller discs will work fine then. Looks like I change my mind everyday.
 
The weight difference is negligable from the smaller rotor to the larger rotor, I doubt you'll see it in the slips, and as was stated earlier, you can NEVER have to much braking power. (what is .01 second in a quarter mile, 99% of drag racing is won at the tree, and in bracket racing I can beat you up all day long with my jeep cherokee lifted 4 1/2" on 31 x 10.5's that runs consistant back to back 17 second runs with the a/c on and the radio blasting, you will not feel 1 tenth in the seat of your pants) If your driving it on the street go with the larger, it will also make the car worth more in the long run. I run 11 3/4 sliders on the front of my dart and still lock the rears first without a proportioning valve, the larger disks allow you to apply more stopping friction without locking the wheel assembly as easily as a smaller dia. rotor under the same pressure with equal tires, I won't bother with the physics, it just is. If your driving on the street with it your front tires arn't to skinny.
 
first of all, the prop valve won't change the bias in the front, its for the back. drums and disc operate on different pressure levels. secondly, you always want your fronts to lock up before the rears for a controlled skid. also, the standard 10.75 discs on all 73-76 a-bodies will stop you just fine.
 
krabysniper said:
The weight difference is negligable from the smaller rotor to the larger rotor, I doubt you'll see it in the slips, and as was stated earlier, you can NEVER have to much braking power. (what is .01 second in a quarter mile, 99% of drag racing is won at the tree, and in bracket racing I can beat you up all day long with my jeep cherokee lifted 4 1/2" on 31 x 10.5's that runs consistant back to back 17 second runs with the a/c on and the radio blasting, you will not feel 1 tenth in the seat of your pants) If your driving it on the street go with the larger, it will also make the car worth more in the long run. I run 11 3/4 sliders on the front of my dart and still lock the rears first without a proportioning valve, the larger disks allow you to apply more stopping friction without locking the wheel assembly as easily as a smaller dia. rotor under the same pressure with equal tires, I won't bother with the physics, it just is. If your driving on the street with it your front tires arn't to skinny.
Click to expand...
LOL
 
what i meant was not bias, pressure. maybe we are saying the same thing. but do you want the rears to lockup first? of course they will with no prop valve, disc take about 1000psi to even work where as drums can start at about 600-800.
 
What a great thread. It's nice to know we think about these things. I have seen too many cars with all the thought thrown into the motor and trans and no thought given to what happens after you hit the loud pedal.
For what it is worth, if you are building a dual purpose car, (street/strip), I would say go for all the brakes you can get. It's not your abilities that are in question, it's the abilities of the yahoo next to you. (And be honest, we all have our moments.)
If it is a track car, get the best, lightest disc setup your wallet can bleed. I agree that drums are lighter for drag racing as far as stock brakes go, but I wouldn't run 'em. I've done the hot lap boogie and lost brakes at the big end. It wasn't worth it. Drums on the back are fine, they don't take the abuse that the fronts do, but, they aren't doing as much work as the fronts either. I wouldn't go with rear discs unless you are trying to impress someone, doing heavy roadcourse work, or got a really bitchen' deal on some. I can make a four wheel drum brake car stop nearly as well as a disc car, but it is not repeatable performance. God knows, living in the land of the unliscenced, uninsured and cell phone, I need repeatable performance.
Being said, I put the cop car rotors on everything I build for myself. I prefer the pin type calipers, believing that the pins provide a more positive and stable mount for the caliper.
And I apologize, I was on vacation, went fishing, so now I am all excited about civilization again.

Kevin
 
So Kevin, if you had your choice between small 10.8" rotors or 11.75" rotors, which one would you go for in a high 10 second street/stripper?
 
I would go with the 11.75's everytime. With one other consideration. If you are going skinny front runners, they won't help you any more. It is a physics thing. If you already have a hand on the big rotors, go with 'em and worry no more.

Kevin
 
In a moment of panic, one would rather know they have the ABILITY to stop, if the circumstances are good, rather than wishing they COULD stop when the circumstances were in their favor.
Err on the side best in your favor, always have "too much" brake!!

As far as the debate on "pin" or "slider" calipers, I prefer the "pin" type as they tend to release more cleanly, but the pins (supposedly) like to bend if you abuse the brakes.
If you use the sliders, it's always advisable to clean them well and add a minor amount of grease to the slide points.

Mark.
 
OK, the weekend is upon me, the paying projects are done, and now, on to my '69 Valiant. I have collected the parts I need for the disc conversion, and I am using the "cop" rotors. I also am using the "tall" or "B" spindles. I wanna play with off camber changes. I finally found the 8.25 rear I was looking for and it came with 11x2 drum brakes. The hardware is serviceable, so I am putting in 15/16th wheel cylinders and new shoes. The only problem is that the rear has a 2.45 gearset in it and I think my /6 is going to really hate that. But, that's all the cash I can throw at her for the moment, so I'll just have to do more freeway cruising.....
I'll let you folks know how it goes if you are interested.

Revhendo
 
Yes, always interested. Have fun, that's what it's really all about. Their is nothing wrong with a /6 car, set-up correctly they make great corner burners, and when you can afford to, you upgrade to go quicker.
 
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