PS pump which one to use?

[plumkrazee70]

The car is a 1969 barracuda. The motor that came out was a 76 318.

I now have an 85. Not much difference, but the 85 is a roller.

I'm using pulleys from the 85 and not sure which pa pump/brackets to use

Ideally I'd like to use the clean black one, picture below because I know that one doesn't leak. The other one came off of the 85 fifth avenue, which I'm not sure the condition. Can I swap brackets? Not sure how pulley alignment is going to be.

 

[mvh]

They are both Saginaw pumps, so that's good. The older Federal pumps with the round neck are inferior. I would swap to the 85 brackets so everything is more likely to line up. The pumps should be interchangeable.

 

[Professor Fate]

Use brackets and pulleys from the same motors, you'll know they all line up. If you feel better using the '76 pump, then use all the pulleys and brackets from the same motor.
Depending on original application, there will be differences in mounting locations and other accessories that you may not be retaining- i.e. air pump, a/c compressor, etc. Using the matched sets assures correct pulley alignment. just be aware that deletion of any of the original components (a/c, air pump) may require shimming or spacers in whatever area that brackets have been removed.

 

[plumkrazee70]

Thanks everyone. Now I need to find a good diagram.

I'm going to use the brackets from the 85. How do I remove this pulley? It looks like it's an Allen head?

 

[Professor Fate]

Looks like you've got 2 different pump shafts- those pulleys won't interchange.

 

[plumkrazee70]

Looks like you've got 2 different pump shafts- those pulleys won't interchange.

Oh ok. Well I'll try using the brackets from the 85 and see how it lines up. The black pump has 2 grooves, while the other has 1.

I've never had a Mopar with PS so this is new to me.

 

[pauly]

I’ve got brackets and pump off an 80’s 318 truck on my 71 340. Seem to line up alright

 

[plumkrazee70]

I’ve got brackets and pump off an 80’s 318 truck on my 71 340. Seem to line up alright

I think with the correct shims, I'm gonna be fine.

 

[krazykuda]

The car is a 1969 barracuda. The motor that came out was a 76 318.

I now have an 85. Not much difference, but the 85 is a roller.

I'm using pulleys from the 85 and not sure which pa pump/brackets to use

Ideally I'd like to use the clean black one, picture below because I know that one doesn't leak. The other one came off of the 85 fifth avenue, which I'm not sure the condition. Can I swap brackets? Not sure how pulley alignment is going to be.

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There are a few things to consider what you need to do...

What radiator are you running in your 69 Barracuda???

69 was the last year for the cast iron water pump and old timing mark location on the pass side and lower radiator outlet on the driver's side... They switched over for 70 and later to the timing marks on the driver's side and lower radiator outlet on the passenger side, and aluminum water pump... The TDC mark was moved 90° to compensate for the new lower radiator hose outlet so the hose wouldn't block the timing marks... The accessories (alternator and p/s) mount a little differently depending on what set-up you are using; cast iron water pump vs aluminum water pump...

I go into the differences for the timing chains and water pumps in this article:

How to Rebuild a Small Block Part 15: Installing the Timing Chain Cover and Water Pump


You have to plan the front of the engine to work with the radiator and accessories that you wish to use...

I'm not sure about swapping the later style radiator into the early body (it may work, but we need someone knowledgeable to answer that as I'm not sure)... That may be the best way for you to go... Then you could use the 70 and later front engine set-up and the p/s brackets that you are using should work as they look like the 70 and later style accessories, just make sure to run the 70 and later alternator bracket and single groove alternator pulley...


If you are using the 69 stock radiator, I would recommend changing the timing chain cover and water pump to the early 64 - 69 style with the cast iron water pump and timing marks on the passenger side... Use the original 70 and later vibration damper and make a new TDC mark to line up with the 64 - 69 TDC location which is 90° different from the 70 and later... They had to move the TDC marks when they moved the lower radiator hose outlet on the two different water pumps... Then use the 64 - 69 style alternator brackets and power steering brackets with the single groove alternator...

This was a quick summary, if you need more clarification ask me and I will try to explain in a little more detail if you need it...

 

[plumkrazee70]

There are a few things to consider what you need to do...

What radiator are you running in your 69 Barracuda???

69 was the last year for the cast iron water pump and old timing mark location on the pass side and lower radiator outlet on the driver's side... They switched over for 70 and later to the timing marks on the driver's side and lower radiator outlet on the passenger side, and aluminum water pump... The TDC mark was moved 90° to compensate for the new lower radiator hose outlet so the hose wouldn't block the timing marks... The accessories (alternator and p/s) mount a little differently depending on what set-up you are using; cast iron water pump vs aluminum water pump...

I go into the differences for the timing chains and water pumps in this article:

How to Rebuild a Small Block Part 15: Installing the Timing Chain Cover and Water Pump


You have to plan the front of the engine to work with the radiator and accessories that you wish to use...

I'm not sure about swapping the later style radiator into the early body (it may work, but we need someone knowledgeable to answer that as I'm not sure)... That may be the best way for you to go... Then you could use the 70 and later front engine set-up and the p/s brackets that you are using should work as they look like the 70 and later style accessories, just make sure to run the 70 and later alternator bracket and single groove alternator pulley...


If you are using the 69 stock radiator, I would recommend changing the timing chain cover and water pump to the early 64 - 69 style with the cast iron water pump and timing marks on the passenger side... Use the original 70 and later vibration damper and make a new TDC mark to line up with the 64 - 69 TDC location which is 90° different from the 70 and later... They had to move the TDC marks when they moved the lower radiator hose outlet on the two different water pumps... Then use the 64 - 69 style alternator brackets and power steering brackets with the single groove alternator...

This was a quick summary, if you need more clarification ask me and I will try to explain in a little more detail if you need it...

Everything is 70+ timing cover, water pump, etc.

 

[krazykuda]

Everything is 70+ timing cover, water pump, etc.

I would look into seeing if you can swap the 70 and later radiator in the 69 body... I've never done it, so I don't know for sure if you can, but I think it may be possible... We need someone that has done that to tell...

If the 70 and later radiator will fit into your body, then the 70 and later front engine parts (timing chain, aluminum water pump, p/s brackets) would be the easiest way to go as you have most of the parts already... Then run the 70 and later alternator brackets with a single groove alternator...

For the alternator, you need to match that with your voltage regulator... The 69 used the old solid state voltage regulator which I would run and use the old style round back alternator with a single groove pulley... The alternators will swap into either old or newer style brackets, just get the proper alternator brackets for the water pump you go with... The 70 and later used the square back alternator and electronic voltage regulator which will require a little wiring modifications to convert if it hasn't been yet...

 

[krazykuda]

The water pump pulleys are different for the two style water pumps, so you need to get the proper vintage water pump pulley to match... I'm not sure if the crank pulleys are different for the two generations, but you need to match the crank pulley, water pump/fan pulley, and then use a dingle groove alternator pulley for non A/C cars... the A/C cars used a double alternator pulley which will not align properly on the non A/C pulleys...

It can be done, you need to know what parts to use for everything to work right together...

 

[plumkrazee70]

The water pump pulleys are different for the two style water pumps, so you need to get the proper vintage water pump pulley to match... I'm not sure if the crank pulleys are different for the two generations, but you need to match the crank pulley, water pump/fan pulley, and then use a dingle groove alternator pulley for non A/C cars... the A/C cars used a double alternator pulley which will not align properly on the non A/C pulleys...

The later radiator definitely works, as it was in the car when I got it. I think I am all set.

I am using the crank and water pump pulleys from the 85, motor mainly for the factory pulley sizes and belt alignment. I am going to swap the 85 ps pump brackets to the other pump I have.

I think I found the correct picture here also

 

[krazykuda]

The later radiator definitely works, as it was in the car when I got it. I think I am all set.

I am using the crank and water pump pulleys from the 85, motor mainly for the factory pulley sizes and belt alignment. I am going to swap the 85 ps pump brackets to the other pump I have.

I think I found the correct picture here also

Check back in a little while, I think I have some pictures that I can post of the 70 and later style set-up, I just have to search and post... It may take me about a half hour or so...

 

[krazykuda]

The later radiator definitely works, as it was in the car when I got it. I think I am all set.

I am using the crank and water pump pulleys from the 85, motor mainly for the factory pulley sizes and belt alignment. I am going to swap the 85 ps pump brackets to the other pump I have.

I think I found the correct picture here also

Here's a start...

This is what the alternator bracket set should look like...

This is a 91 360 engine that we installed in my son's 71 Valiant... These are the parts that you want to model after...

 

[krazykuda]

Back to the 71 Valiant with the 91 360...

Here's the power steering set-up... Notice how the water pump pulley has the angle shape... The 64 - 69 water pump pulleys are more of a bell shape... You want to use this water pump pulley with the aluminum water pump...

Here you can see the alternator and water pump pulleys are aligned properly...

This shows the 70 and later style radiator...

 

[krazykuda]

Here's a close up of the power steering bracket configuration... We didn't have the proper spacer, so we stacked a few together to get the proper length...

More views...

 

[krazykuda]

If you don't have the alternator bracket, we used this mancini racing kit... Both brackets and the long bolt with the spacers, it has everything but the short bolt...

Warning: The price was way post pandemic, I'm sure it's more expen$ive now...

Actually, it's only 95 cents more now... Not bad...

Mancini Racing - Alternator Mounting Kit

 

[krazykuda]

Here's some better views of the alternator mounting...

 

[carterpage]

Here's a close up of the power steering bracket configuration... We didn't have the proper spacer, so we stacked a few together to get the proper length...

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More views...

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What did the final length of your spacer end up being, if you don’t mind? I don’t have one for mine and feel like the brackets are bowing in.