question for the electricians

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diymirage

diymirage

HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
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i bought a new house and it comes with a garbage disposal build into the sink

now, it is wired up as follow, there is a thick electrical cord going into a junction box under the sink
from there, there is a normal size cord (im guessing 16 gauge 3 strand, whatever is generally used inside homes) going up to the kitchen counter, where the switch is

there is a second normal sized cord going into the actual grinder doohickey

now, here is my intent, on the top of the counter, where the switch is, i would like to add an outlet to run my coffee pot on

so, here is my question (presuming the house is wired properly)

can i come into the junction box and add a second wire to the hot, and one to the ground, and use them for my outlet?

this should constitute a parallel connection that would operate independent from the grinder, correct?

2011-05-10_190219_switch_outlet.jpg
 
Yep, Depending on when the house was wired, what codes were in place, The disposal may or may not be a separate breaker. Dishwashers, microwaves, refrigerators, etc.., are on separate breaker circuits in modern construction code. I'm not exactly sure about disposals today. My disposal is on the dishwasher circuit. Two switches there.
Adding a live outlet is close to the sink and water though. GFIC breaker is a must, and you may already have that too.
 
15 Amp circuit = 14GA wire, 20A circuit = 12GA wire. I would check my service panel and try to track the circuit down. You may wind up tripping the breaker.
Current code in WA state required an GFCI outlet within so far of the kitchen sink.
In any case, be careful-that jerk up under the sink gives a good bump on the back of the head:)
 
Why would you need to run a separate cable from the junction box? Just wire in the receptacle where the current switch is. As mentioned, make sure it's GFCI protected. And make sure the max potential load on the whole circuit is lower than the ratings listed above, otherwise you'll be resetting the breaker often.
 
Just thinking.... I don't know how much current a coffee maker needs or what size wire you have going up to your switch but... There is a hot black going there now. You might just tap that at that box for both switch and outlet. Of course you would still need to run the white and the green to that box.
 
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DesertRat said:
15 Amp circuit = 14GA wire, 20A circuit = 12GA wire. I would check my service panel and try to track the circuit down. You may wind up tripping the breaker.
Current code in WA state required an GFCI outlet within so far of the kitchen sink.
In any case, be careful-that jerk up under the sink gives a good bump on the back of the head:)
Click to expand...
I have never seen 16 ga. wire in any house. was a plumber for over 40 yrs before retiring, and installed a bunch of disposals. 14 ga. minimum.
go for the ground fault near the sink, altho I`ve never seen one w/ a separate switch. u mau have to rig another outlet box for one or the other.
 
Where is the feed ?
Top box or bottom box ?
Is top box just a switch loop ?... If it is, there may not be a neutral there.
Don't use a ground for neutral.
 
Ok going by your description you have power from the circuit breaker going to the junction box and then just a switch leg. I believe this is correct by your description. If that is the case then you only have a hot leg running to the switch and no neutral. possibly a ground depending on how they wired it. In that case you could not just jumper off the switch and add an outlet without running a new wire. If this actually loads here is a crude drawing of what you have. In Order to add an outlet you would need to replace the run to the switch with a 4 conductor wire (black, white , red ,ground)
power to box.png
 
thanks for all the help guys

(i should have started with this, but here is the junction box)

it looks like the bottom two cords were actually one, at some point (based on the red wire)


could i just add a white and a black to each of the two wirenuts?
(and would that work with a GFCI)

oh, and im not sure on the size of the wires, i was just guessing at it, so if it should be 12 or 14, it probably is

20170301_134404.jpg


20170301_134434.jpg


20170301_134647.jpg
 
It does look to be added. Since there is a red and a black this is probably just a way to save money and labor in wiring the kitchen. Red and black could very well be coming from 2 different breakers. Red could go to dishwasher, fridge, who knows?
So even if you do flip breakers to determine when black is off, don't trust the red to be also off. We don't know where its from to and we really don't need to care so long as we don't break its casing.
 
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How bout a pic of the switch J box.
Does the 3 conductor run between the switch J box and the bottom J box ?
Is the 3 conductor the feed ?... (2 circuits with a shared neutral)
 
Dfr360cuda said:
How bout a pic of the switch J box.
Does the 3 conductor run between the switch J box and the bottom J box ?
Is the 3 conductor the feed ?... (2 circuits with a shared neutral)
Click to expand...

i got to run out and do some errands, ill grab a picture of that later tonite

mopowers said:
No offense, but that box is a mess.
Click to expand...

tell me about it...have a look at this picture

see that outlet (red 1) ?
i wanted to pull a constant feed from there for a TV in the room across from it
however, that outlet (and the 2 beside it) are on a switch (red 2)

no problem, i popped the cover off the switch and found one black wire on the hot side of the switch, and three on the other side
so i found the wire that went to the outlet i wanted and put it on the hot side of the switch

problem solved right?

only difference is, red 3
that a bathroom, with a light in it, and a separate switch for just that light...which now only works if the outlet switch (red 2) is on
what in the world?

20170301_155932.jpg
 
When we the house built? I'm no electrician, but I can spot about 3 things in the picture of that junction box that is against code. I'd be tempted to at least redo that junction box while you're installing your switch.
 
I think that was part of the original structure, which was build in 1985
 
as an electrician of over thirty years that box looks typical of any home owner installation the wires are not supported within 6 inches of the box and they did not use crimps on the grounds. also being an older install you need to check wire size back then there was only white jackets on 12 and 14 wire today they are color coded . so check that you first have 12 wire and then confirm that it is backed by a 20 amp breaker you then can pull your feed from that box to install your plug. I did see a red wire if they ran a three wire up from the panel you can use the red wire as a new feed and share the neutral wire because there are less than three circuits using it.
 
cool, i like the idea of tapping into the red and going from there

thanks
 
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