Rebuild 5.7 or buy something else?

-
S

snapetwo

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
404
Reaction score
8
Location
colorado springs, co
OK, so about a year ago i found a 5.7 on craigslist, bought it for $200.
Guy said it ran but had a tick, so his client wanted it replaced.
Had no electronics so no way to fire it.
I took off the heads (wasting the $300 headbolts) and it turns over and looks good from what I see.
Well through the coarse of the year it sat in the garage, uncovered. We had the roof redone and woodchips/sawdust fell all over it.

My question is this. In regards to the "tick" and woodchips. I wouldn't want to try and put it backtogether and have it fail, so I would need to rebuild it. And if I am going thru trouble of tearing it down, rebuilding it, i may as well have it stroked too, maybe bored (read that the walls are to thin for this?).

SO my question is, if i tore the engine all the way down, took it to a machine shop and had the machine work done, assuming its not to bad. Then I tried to assemble it (never rebuilt and engine before), using a stroker kit/parts online. What is a good idea of cost? If i have someone rebuild it for me?

VERSUS

buying something online already rebuild and running, maybe already "upgraded", maybe even a 6.1, etc.

Ideas and comments appreciated.

Ultimately I want to be able to drive this on street, take a trip in the mountains, doubt it will see much if any strip time, but id still like it to have some balls to irritate a few folks and melt some rubber. I plan to run a manual tranny and some wide meats in the back if that helps.
Also, i know that the wiring harness and electronics, drive by wire pedal from hotwire auto will cost me about $2000
 
if you have never done it before, i'd take all the parts to a machine shop. let them evaluate and give you an estimate.

you can have them prep the pieces and then put it together yourself.

any way you look at it, it's going to cost money. with guidance/experience of the shop you are spending your money wisely. there is a point where you can try to scrimp and save too much and do it all yourself and end up losing.

i put my first 340 together, back in the 80's, i had a machine shop hot tank the block. bore it over. balance the crank/rods/pistons for me. i had a book that told how to check clearances, use plastigauge, etc. how much to torque everything, yadi yadi yadi. it's a lot of attention to detail. everything cleaned, everything clearanced, torqued etc just right. different lubes on stuff. anti-sieze on certain bolts, oil on certain parts. prelubing with a drill and extension through the distributor hole. piston ring gap.

lots of stuff to look out for... you need excellent documentation and patience. cleanliness is key. no metal shavings, etc. good gaskets.

the benefit of using a good machine shop is they do this stuff day in/day out it's like second nature to them.
 
Let me start by saying that I am not an expert...but in reading many posts over the last 2 years the consensus seems to be...buy a late 80's early 90's 360 magnum engine with roller rockers and you are way ahead of he game. I am not sure what a 'drive by wire' or what wiring harness you are referring to, but 2 grand for them seems excessive. For 2 grand you can buy a whole parts car and take most of what you need and sell the rest to recoup your money. Also, don't give up hope. You will get more responses.
 
thanks for the input fellers.
Photorep, drive by wire is the electronic gas pedal for the new 3g hemi. They dont' have a throttle cable anymore, its all electric.
Wireharness is the wiring hardness for the new hemi to hook it up. It has to be "hacked" to work outside a factory car, has to be hacked to run on the ECM or have a custom ECM.
the $2000 is the cost from the place that does it, that has a good reputation and its a "plug and play" setup, not much for me to have to do....im lacking in then electronics department sadly.

the new 3g hemis, EFI and computer controlled....no more distributer, carb, or coil boys.
 
We are doing a resto-mod style challenger in our shop right now. We are buying a 2013 5.7 hemi for it. They can be bought for 2500-3000 range for late model low mileage engines. The 09 and up have the large port eagle heads , and a 6.1 intake will bolt up (same port size). Hotwire and modern muscle sell the ecm, and wiring for these engines. Comp cams vvt camshaft in a 09 5.7 challenger made 454 horsepower at the wheels .I believe 09-up 5.7 engines are the best bang for the buck.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xatPAC1Wvw"]Dyno Testing Comp Cams Hemi Phaser 274 Camshaft for VVT 5.7L & 6.4L HEMI Engines: Challenger - YouTube[/ame]
 
hey blown, where can I get one of those engines?
right now I got an 05 outta a ram. I got it for $200 so it was a steal no matter what I do with it...
I just want the dart to breathe a little, getting ancy.
 
E-bay has them for sale all the time. I saw a 2010 engine a while back with just a few thousand miles on it for $2500.
 
blown71duster said:
We are doing a resto-mod style challenger in our shop right now. We are buying a 2013 5.7 hemi for it. They can be bought for 2500-3000 range for late model low mileage engines. The 09 and up have the large port eagle heads , and a 6.1 intake will bolt up (same port size). Hotwire and modern muscle sell the ecm, and wiring for these engines. Comp cams vvt camshaft in a 09 5.7 challenger made 454 horsepower at the wheels .I believe 09-up 5.7 engines are the best bang for the buck.


Dyno Testing Comp Cams Hemi Phaser 274 Camshaft for VVT 5.7L & 6.4L HEMI Engines: Challenger - YouTube
Click to expand...



Blown71duster - is the hotwire computer and wiring the same price for the VVT motors? That's an expensive cam (at least on HHP's website). Is that for just the cam? Or?
 
VVT engines are still in their infancy regarding tuning. Keep in mind that the Challenger that put out 454whp also had headers and a full aftermarket exhaust and a cold air intake. Plus an untold number of hours on the dyno tuning out every last drop of power for promotional purposes. I have not seen or heard of anyone else making that much power with the 274 cam.

Aftermarket stroker short blocks go anywhere from $3-4K. Even if you do all you can yourself you are still looking at around $3K for machine work and the cheapest stroker kit.

If I were in your shoes, I'd disassemble the short block and inspect the bores to see how bad they are and to check for damaged pistons rods and crank. That will help you determine how to proceed.

If the block and everything else look good I'd ball hone the cylinders and buy a rering kit with rings bearings and gaskets (about $400 on ebay)and put the stock short block back together. I'd have the heads cnc ported and get a healthy cam with a good timing set. You could have a 500 crank hp capable long block for about the cost of just a bare stroker short block.

But, if you want anything over 500hp, a stroker is the only way to go. I know of a couple making in the 620 to 650 range with the early (03-08 ) heads.

I hope this helps
 
The real pricy stuff is the engine management. If going the Hotwire oem ECM route you will also need a good tuner like a diablo sport intune. Unless you take it to a shop and have it dyno tuned. Either way costs. It's best to have a tuner and have it dynoed.

Or there's the carb conversion. Equally pricy if you don't already have a carb lying around. You have to get a 700-1000 dollar intake plus carb and MSD OR FAST ignition controller and wiring harness.

Lots to consider either way. The best thing to do is search google or bing and determine what the pros and cons are to each method. Then think long and hard about which way is best for you.

I have a spiral notebook with varying detailed methods to build mine and my desires have changed over time. After 3 years I finally have it nailed down and have been buying parts as I can.

Good luck and happy researching.

CM
 
Uhcoog1 said:
Blown71duster - is the hotwire computer and wiring the same price for the VVT motors? That's an expensive cam (at least on HHP's website). Is that for just the cam? Or?
Click to expand...

The vvt ecm and wiring is a little more, $2300 for the ecm,wiring, and dbw pedal.

I am not sure on the cam prices ,we are going to leave the hemi stock in our project car, upgraded exhaust with headers and free flowing mufflers and a cold air intake should push the power up a little with a tune.The 09 and up hemi is 390hp stock so the power is pretty decent .
Should match the new challengers 25 mpg highway too, with a tko overdrive tranny.
These things have unreal potential, there is a guy that built a 6.4 based hemi on moparts that dynoed at 784 hp on pump gas.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7578330&an=0&page=0#Post7578330
 
I hope they hurry up and unlock the 2011+ ECM so we can see what those Phaser cams can do to a 6.4. Im guessing 525hp at the wheels.....
 
eh, a Hemi for "Hemi's" sake....I'd probably throw a supercharger on a megasquirted 360 magnum....and hang on :D
that is before I'd go with a new hemi engine...modding new chrysler stuff is a little too expensive for me
 
Tuning is available for the vvt engines.
 
Thanks CM, that is some good direction.
500hp would be plenty for me, for now.
I think that's what im gonna do. Dissemble, check it out. Get it honed. Rebuild.
 
snapetwo said:
Thanks CM, that is some good direction.
500hp would be plenty for me, for now.
I think that's what im gonna do. Dissemble, check it out. Get it honed. Rebuild.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what my buddy is doing with his 6.1 block that has been sitting for a while (actually has a small amount of surface rust in the bores). We think it spun a rod bearing. He's going to get it hot tanked, inspect the bores, hone the bores, put in new cam bearings, file fit rings (larger top gap than factory), put in all used pistons/rods/crank, new crank and cam bearings, new main and rod bolts, new head bolts, and go.

Here's a quick breakdown I put together when I was headed in the same direction you are (I had a spun rod bearing 5.7 that I was going to tear down and build back up with one new rod/piston):



Hopefully that helps you to some degree. I'm not sure how current the prices are, as this was put together 2 years ago.

That's also when I decided to build a forged 5.7, as I was able to get pistons and rods for $1050, and I already had a 6.1 crank.
 
Thank you, that actually helps a lot.
I guess what im looking for is whats the machine work gonna cost, ballpark idear.
Oh well, i'll make some calls and see what we can do.
 
I paid ~$800 for machine work (bored, honed, line honed), balancing, and short block assembly (including file fit rings, checking tolerances, etc). I was definitely over $2000 for the short block including bearings, main studs, etc etc.

I built a 3.58 stroke forged motor because I'm going to road race the car. I wanted bulletproof. All other NA builds I would recommend a factory short block or a forged stroker motor. High boost motors seem to live longer with factory stroke.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top