resurface rotors, absolutely needed or not?

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Rapid Robert

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heard several non mechanics lately talking about getting new pad/rotors turned on their cars. when is it really needed to turn the rotors? I just did the front discs on my 79 dodge B2500 van & after several days of grinding I finally put new pads in/retracted the piston with a c clamp was easy as pie. the rotors were grooved but it stops flawless now/& no noise. is that a shop scam? your thoughts please & thank you. RR
 
Always resurface rotors if possible. Turning them will return them to true and stop any wobble and will break the glaze returning full stopping power. I prefer to turn new rotors also as many new ones are out of round.
 
in addition to what murray wrote, just doing a pad slap will eat up new pads quickly.

it's kinda like if you just slammed new rotors on that have new races and reused the old bearings. sure it'll work but the life expectancy goes way down. and if it goes brown and round in a big way, you could roach a spindle too.

do it right and do it once.
 
no not a scam. In fact, now a days hardly anyone turns them anymore. Most just slap on new ones. To me it depends on the particular vehicle in front of you.
One thing, is that to cut, them they get thinner. The less thickness the more likely they are to warp. Back when most had inner + outer bearings and races they were heavier and acted as a better "heat sink" not to mention more leeway between new spec and "machine to/ "discard" (they weren't the same) than current rotors, the formulation of pads back then was easier on rotors than it is now, (or "in between" when everything was semi metallic pads; the ceramics are better than semi's but not quite as easy on rotor wear as old organics were)
the metallurgy back then was better, but todays pads last longer in most cases than old school ones, so rotors are subject to more hot/cold/hot again heat cycles before todays pads are "shot"/
Back in the 70s I remember most GMs had a scratch/ groove in the center of the wear surface that was actually put there as a built in "wear gauge"... you can still see it and have no pulsation, keep using em....
What I do is if theyre not grinding, not pulsating and not rotted away to $#it on the wear surface I'll still "pad slap em.... alot of times the inner 1/3 and the outer 1/3 are bands of rust and the wear surface has actually "chipped away" and just left a "middle band" left for the brake pads to really work; those get **** canned.
When I had access to a brake lathe, rotors like you describe would go on the lathe and see if they could "mostly" be cleaned up and still measure out good.... if there were a few scratches left in them they'd go 'til next brake job. but if while turning them what was left looked like a swirl and not consistent, Id cut them again and see if theyd clean up at thicker than "machine to". if not they'd be trash as well.
Yours being a 1 ton van that's alot of weight to stop, even if not loaded down or towing..... I cant say I have never pad slapped a vehicle that went metal to metal.... but Ive never liked it....
 
Not a scam. "Cutting" a rotor trues the surface so the pads wear evenly and gives them a fresh surface to bed into. It basically prolongs the life of the part through 2 sets of pads. Always cut the rotors when changing pads unless you change the rotors too.

Grooves in the rotors reduce the braking surface area. If the grooves in the rotor are deep they should probably be replaced.
 
thanks guys, you have answered my inquiry. it is just a around town slow speed junker but after overhearing several people talk about getting their rotors turned it piqued my interest. thanks guys for the fast/comprehensive responses!
 
thanks guys, you have answered my inquiry. it is just a around town slow speed junker but after overhearing several people talk about getting their rotors turned it piqued my interest. thanks guys for the fast/comprehensive responses!
I like to bust the glaze. I use an 8 inch D.A. with #36 grit.
















a
 
What a bunch of over cautious Nancys here.
No, I don't turn a rotor or drum unless they are scored, grooved, went metal to metal or had a shimmy to them.
Each time you resurface a drum or rotor, you shorten it's life and leave LESS metal to absorb heat which accelerates the rate at which they develop warping issues.
Rick Ehrenberg, the Mopar Action tech editor is one of the most meticulous, do it by the book types you'd ever meet and even HE advises against resurfacing anything until it meets the criteria I listed above.
There are some real cautious, scared of their own shadow types that will disagree but I'd bet a weeks pay that they were the types that also believed the "science" in other matters.
 
What a bunch of over cautious Nancys here.
No, I don't turn a rotor or drum unless they are scored, grooved, went metal to metal or had a shimmy to them.
Each time you resurface a drum or rotor, you shorten it's life and leave LESS metal to absorb heat which accelerates the rate at which they develop warping issues.
Rick Ehrenberg, the Mopar Action tech editor is one of the most meticulous, do it by the book types you'd ever meet and even HE advises against resurfacing anything until it meets the criteria I listed above.
There are some real cautious, scared of their own shadow types that will disagree but I'd bet a weeks pay that they were the types that also believed the "science" in other matters.
like I had said it depends on the particular vehicle you have at hand "right now", some need it some don't.... but as a universal, you absolutely "HAVE TO, EVERY TIME", not the case.
 
If rotor not warped or grooved, still flat and true, I rough it up with coarse grit sand paper to get rid of the glaze. Did that a few times with success. But rotor and or drum has to be in good condition for that approach to work.

If surface is good but slight warp have them turned just enough to get rid of warp then rough up with sand paper. You want to keep metal as think as possible to help dissipate heat and prevent future warping.
 
Was the brake pedal pulsating when applied? No? Then don't worry about resurfacing the rotors.
 
it it grooved & went metal to metal but all good so far (only been 1 day). EDIT no pulsating but it was metal on metal for 3 days. just waited for the rain to stop so I could get after it
 
What a bunch of over cautious Nancys here.

nah, i just don't like comebacks.

if it's my car, or a buddy's or whatever? fine & dandy.

if it's a customer? they get turned or you get new-- and the new ones will get checked too. nothing is worse than the "ever since" and with brakes, that's a reputation killer.

so call me a nervous nellie if you like, but i'd prefer to think of it as a form of self preservation with a side salad of an abundance of caution.
 
nah, i just don't like comebacks.

if it's my car, or a buddy's or whatever? fine & dandy.

if it's a customer? they get turned or you get new-- and the new ones will get checked too. nothing is worse than the "ever since" and with brakes, that's a reputation killer.

so call me a nervous nellie if you like, but i'd prefer to think of it as a form of self preservation with a side salad of an abundance of caution.
New AND tuned. New stuff is junk.
 
How long does it take to put a dial indicator on rotors? Less then 5 minutes a side. So check um. If they're still true, run a Rolok pad around um and deglaze um.
 
The new pads will wear to match the rotor surfaces soon anyway.
A little scraped up and wanting to save a buck, run em.
 
How long does it take to put a dial indicator on rotors? Less then 5 minutes a side. So check um. If they're still true, run a Rolok pad around um and deglaze um.

If you cant feel it then it really doesn’t matter if they are warped does it? :D
 
What a bunch of over cautious Nancys here.
No, I don't turn a rotor or drum unless they are scored, grooved, went metal to metal or had a shimmy to them.
Each time you resurface a drum or rotor, you shorten it's life and leave LESS metal to absorb heat which accelerates the rate at which they develop warping issues.
Rick Ehrenberg, the Mopar Action tech editor is one of the most meticulous, do it by the book types you'd ever meet and even HE advises against resurfacing anything until it meets the criteria I listed above.
There are some real cautious, scared of their own shadow types that will disagree but I'd bet a weeks pay that they were the types that also believed the "science" in other matters.
I believe that what both you and Rick say on this "matter" is good advice. It sounds like it is based in "science" to me.
 
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I was at a seminar for racing brake systems. The guy from wilwood said that when you bed brake pads to a new rotor the compounds from the brake pads are embedded into the metal surface of the rotor. This gives the rotor better grip than the raw metal.
Pads can get glazed and he recommended roughing them up to de-glaze the pads. He also said if you change brake pad compounds you need to sand the old pads compound from the rotor before bedding the new compound into the rotor.
I will usually wear out several sets of pads before needing to replace the rotors. I race with guys who wear out rear rotors in no time with aggressive pads trail braking. You can see the rotors glowing red hot and sparks flying off them while they race. I have good view of this because they are usually ahead of me.
 
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Not a scam. "Cutting" a rotor trues the surface so the pads wear evenly and gives them a fresh surface to bed into. It basically prolongs the life of the part through 2 sets of pads. Always cut the rotors when changing pads unless you change the rotors too.

Grooves in the rotors reduce the braking surface area. If the grooves in the rotor are deep they should probably be replaced.
Grooves in the rotors actually INCREASES the surface area.....once the pads seat in. With the price of some of our old car rotors, it's a lot cheaper to replace pads. If your brakes are working fine with no pulsation, no reason to machine the rotors. Once they're (way) out of specs, replace them.
 
Good grief.

Turning the rotor trues the rotor (if necessary) AND provides the proper surface to bed in the new pads. It is how you get the best performance out of your brakes over the life of the pads.

If the rotor isn't warped or gouged and you just put in new pads, the pads will eventually wear to the rotors and create the surface they want and the braking will be fine. But in the time it takes to get to that point the brakes will not be as effective and that process will wear the pads faster. Not the end of the world but definitely not best practice or best for performance.

If you're not measuring the rotor thickness before you change the pads and run them, you're an idiot. Even reproduction rotors for these cars usually won't be in spec for a 2nd pad change. Not with any performance brake pads anyway.

Most shops just buy new rotors now because most new rotors are not thick enough to turn and run again. The rotors don't come with a ton of extra material on them, so if you've gone through a set of pads you've also worn down the rotor, and not a lot of them would remain in spec after you turned them if something is visibly wrong with the rotors. So they get replaced instead of turned.

If you know how to turn a rotor, you know you don't need to take much off. If the rotors are true and smooth you're not losing much thickness, just providing the proper surface. Using a sander on them reduces the thickness too, and won't necessarily provide a flat surface. If you're gonna blast them with a sander, roloc, etc you should just have them turned, you're not saving metal, just introducing the possibility of a non-flat surface.

If a set of rotors won't survive being turned and remain in spec, they're not true or flat anyway. If a rotor has visibly "deep" gouges or is warped enough to cause a vibration, it likely won't true up without going out of spec anymore.

Yes, I've absolutely changed my own brake pads without turning or replacing my rotors. No, I didn't die. No, it's not best practice. And yes, after that 2nd set of pads wore out the rotors were out of spec, so they didn't last any longer than if I'd turned them at the previous change.

What a bunch of over cautious Nancys here.
No, I don't turn a rotor or drum unless they are scored, grooved, went metal to metal or had a shimmy to them.
Each time you resurface a drum or rotor, you shorten it's life and leave LESS metal to absorb heat which accelerates the rate at which they develop warping issues.
Rick Ehrenberg, the Mopar Action tech editor is one of the most meticulous, do it by the book types you'd ever meet and even HE advises against resurfacing anything until it meets the criteria I listed above.

If a rotor is visibly scored, grooved, went metal on metal or has a vibration they're most likely junk, and need replaced instead of turned anyway. Most modern rotors aren't thick enough anymore to clean up with obvious damage like that. Maybe 50 years ago, not anymore.

Any rotor within spec should work just fine. That's why there's a spec, some poor bastard actually had to test that. Nowadays if you're able to turn a set of rotors once you're doing good, they wear down with use so it's not like they last forever if you don't turn them. Realistically if you've changed the pads once the rotor will be out of spec when the next set of pads needs to go on regardless of them being turned or not.

Ehrenberg is also a cheap purist. He doesn't advise turning rotors because he doesn't want to buy a new set and when he wrote that article the rotors/drums he was using probably weren't widely reproduced. It's the same argument from people that use less aggressive brake pads. That's fine if you care more about not buying a new set of rotors than how well your car stops. People that actually drive their cars should care more about how well they stop than about saving their rotors.

I'd rather chew up a set of rotors with aggressive pads and stop better than make my rotors last forever. Rotors are wearing parts, stopping is more important than rotor longevity. A set of rotors is a lot cheaper than new bodywork.
There are some real cautious, scared of their own shadow types that will disagree but I'd bet a weeks pay that they were the types that also believed the "science" in other matters.

Anyone that puts science in quotes is just demonstrating they don't know enough science to have an informed opinion on the topic. Clearly that's the case with you on this one. And probably lots of others.
 
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