retard timing mechanically?

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I'm not sure. The motor is sitting on a stand right now... the turbo project won't start taking place for a few more months.
What are you guys running for timing? How much are you pulling? I'm aiming for the 12-14lb range...
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The only thing I can't build are parts that need welded. I can piece stuff together as long as it don't need welded.
But the big "$0" sparked my interest so all you do is run it to the manifold? I understand there isn't any vacuum in the intake at wot, so that keeps timing retarded enuff?
What is a good base timing?
Yes, as long as there is vacuum in the intake manifold it will pull on the vac advance and keep the timing up for no boost cruise. At WOT the advance will fall off and you would be starting to make boost anyway.. Just think about it..
 
Theory sounds good... how about the real world experience though? Have you done this?
I can't think of any reason it won't work but sometimes thought can be deceiving lol
 
Yes, I've done this before.. Even some OEM stuff is done like this to give more initial advance at idle and less total to avoid pinging etc..
 
I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes when the time comes.
Thanks guys.

You asked about timing and no one responded. We have a turbocharged slant six that is slated to run 20 pounds of boost, eventually, but the waste gate is set for 10 pounds right now, as we are still in the beginning phases of testing.

All the information I could find from people who have successfully made somewhere around 500 horsepower (and, some less) out of these motors (/6s) run 18 degrees total advance when under boost.

Flame fronts in boosted applications travel across the combustion chamber much faster than they do in naturally-aspirated engines... so, they don't need as much spark advance while boost is present.

You could use the vacuum diaphragm to increase the amount of advance for driveability and economy, when no boost is present, I'd imagine.

Hope this helps...:blob:
 
You can use the dual-pickup distributor too, with a switch to choose which timing trigger you want.

Yes you can run a dual pickup dizzy Mr Dedman and myself are running one in our slant turbo valiants . I believe most were found in the lean burn era mid 70's. You can run a Hobbs switch of some sort to switch between the two pickups. Ideally a dual set of contact switch that under vacuum one pickup is live and under boost the other on retards your timing.

The member on. Org who I bought my dizzy from told me there's about a 8° difference between the two pickups.
I never hooked mine up this way because I like the 6530 because it has different rev limits plus timing control and data logging....

I hope this helps
 
Yes you can run a dual pickup dizzy Mr Dedman and myself are running one in our slant turbo valiants . I believe most were found in the lean burn era mid 70's. You can run a Hobbs switch of some sort to switch between the two pickups. Ideally a dual set of contact switch that under vacuum one pickup is live and under boost the other on retards your timing.

The member on. Org who I bought my dizzy from told me there's about a 8° difference between the two pickups.
I never hooked mine up this way because I like the 6530 because it has different rev limits plus timing control and data logging....

I hope this helps
What Aaron said about our car was true as far as it went, but, here is some more information... for your perusal...


What we did was to order a rebuilt dual pickup "Lean Burn" distributor from Rock Auto, which has NO vacuum diaphragm, and NO centrifugal advance mechanism in it to advance the timing at all.... it is essentially, a locked plate that cannot move to change the spark setting.

Simple...

The idea was going to be, to use one of the pickups for starting (retarded, to keep the engine from "kicking back" on the starter,) and switch over to the other pickup for all other running, using a "double-pole, double throw" switch that would de-activate one pickup, while simultaneously activating the other... thereby advancing the spark for general driving. One flick of one (dp-dt) switch would do it all...

I began trying to find out how much difference there was in the placement of the two pickups to learn how many degrees of spark advance (or, retard) difference there would be, from one pickup to the other.

I searched for days and never could find out.

So, I decided that I would just hook up a timing light and check on the damper, and see what happened when I switched between the two pickups.

But, the thing ran so good on ONE pickup, set at 18 degrees of advance, and had NO "starter kick-back" at all with just the one pickup hooked up, that I never bothered to hook up the second pickup, so, I still don't know.... because I don't use the second pickup.

This engine seems to run perfectly well with NO spark advance curve... runs cool, has a ton of power, starts on the first hit... and idles at 500 rpm, smoothly. We don't need no steenking spark advance curve!!!

Admittedly, it is turbocharged (10 pounds of boost) and is a race-only engine, with no street driving in its future, so the demands on it are minimal when it comes to driveability, but, knowing what I know, now, if I wanted to drive it on the street, I think I would just replace this distributor with another "locked plate" Lean Burn distributor, that had a vacuum advance canister on it, and hook it up to manifold vacuum. The vacuum unit would advance the spark for fuel economy (cruising) and cooler running while there was no boost being made, and revert back to eighteen degrees of advance (where I would set the timing with no vacuum,) when I opened the throttle, vacuum disappeared and boost came on.

I can't see why this would not work. The absence of a spark advance curve doesn't seem to affect the way this engine runs at part-throttle at all. Weird!!!

My 2-cents...
 
I'm not sure. The motor is sitting on a stand right now... the turbo project won't start taking place for a few more months.
What are you guys running for timing? How much are you pulling? I'm aiming for the 12-14lb range...
IMG_20130822_194035_266.jpg
[/IMG]
I have a suggestion that perhaps you've already thought of. Since the vacuum advance on a distributor is sitting bolted down and very removeable, remove it and see if you can pull the pushrod out any further than it is while just sitting there. In other words, see if there is something blocking the rod from coming out when you pull on it. If it won't come out at all, see if you can modify it to come out a bit, like perhaps 1/8" -3/16". Try to make the diaphragm the stop point for when you set the timing with the vacuum hose off the distributor. Once the timing is set and you put the hose back on, the timing will advance. Once the motor starts making boost, the pressure in the hose will not only allow the timing to go back to a non-advanced position, but put it in a retarded manner. I was modifying a GM distributor for a Desoto hemi when I came up with this idea, but then decided to go with a Megasquirt system instead. One could also make a billet vacuum advance unit out of aluminum utilizing a spring on each side of the diaphragm for advance and boost. Pictured is a billet wastegate actuator I just sold on ebay. A vacuum advance unit could be built with a spring on each side of the diaphragm so that it would work in both boost and vacuum situatuions. Here's the motor we were gonna use the distributor on. Just a thought, Bill
 

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^ what you just said is way over my head lol. The distributor shown in that pic is the stock magnum dizzy that is gutted. So I have no way to play with it cause there's nothing to play with. I'm not the brightest on wiring and electronic devices unless its radios a d sou d systems. I'm going to try my luck with a normal vac add distributor hooked to the intake manifold and hope for the best... and if it don't work I will fork the cash for the msd btm.
 
I'm not sure. The motor is sitting on a stand right now... the turbo project won't start taking place for a few more months.
What are you guys running for timing? How much are you pulling? I'm aiming for the 12-14lb range...
IMG_20130822_194035_266.jpg
[/IMG]

On my Hemi I am running an MSD pro-billet distributor with weak springs and a 10 degree bushing. 14 pounds of boost and 31 degrees of timing.
 
How would one retard timing with out the popular msd btm. Seems that 400 is a lot for an electrical box. Paying for the name? Is there some type of mech dizzy that can be setup to work?
I know the timing makes or breaks the motor due to detonation.
I'm in the very early stage of planing and learning but every time I search timing retard it comes up with the msd or I seen a pro comp one that didn't have good reviews.
Here's a vacuum advance piece I have. On most units, when the vacuum is gone, it slides to a dead stop. On this one, when you add pressure to the same side, it pushes forward instead of pulling back, therefore retarding the timing. It has a second hose fitting in the front. Don't know why, but it may just be a release from any trapped air. Don't know what this unit is from, but you're welcome to it if you'd like to try it out. Bill
 

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