My stroker 360 is a hybrid Magnum block and LA heads and I'm running new oem hydraulic roller lifters with the Jeep pushrods to feed the rockers. I soaked the new lifters in a container of oil for a couple of days, but once in the block, they seem to be not filled with oil completely and I'm wondering about setting the valve lash, if even roughly. Normally with a hydraulic lifter I'd look for tightening until the push rod stopped moving and then a turn or turn and a half more, but that'd be with a full, tight lifter and I don't know that I've got that here. Suggestions?
Setting valve lash with new, non filled hydraulic roller lifters
- Thread starter jimynick
- Start date
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Simple. They HAVE preload springs in them. Simply adjust off the preload springs. You'll get the same result.
Yeah, I knew they had internal springs, but I didn't know if their operating height was the same as their new, un-oiled height, but I'll give them a whirl. Thanks for the advice! What's your take on preload? 1 or 1.5 turns in after pushrod bite?
I am light handed with preload. I usually only go 1/2 to 3/4 turn.
Edit that. I just saw you are using hydraulic rollers. They normally like a little more preload. Maybe 1 full turn. I don't like going more than that on much of anything.
Copy that. Thx again for both the advice and the speedy response!
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Light handed is the key when taking lash out. You do not want to depress the plunger at all before you set the preload. I never fill (pump up) hydraulic lifters before installing them. But I always pre oil the engines before starting them the first time to fill the lifters. 3/4 to 1 turn of preload should be fine on stock hydraulic rollers.
Just had a set of heads come in. He soaked the lifters until hard. Installed,Set the preload and cranked her over. Bent 6 valves. He brought the heads to us to fix. I run all the hydraulics at zero to 1/4 turn down no more. Comp Cams and others tells you do not soak the lifters. Prime the pump while turning the engine with no plugs in it. You'll feel the lifters pump up.
Where did you hear 1/4 turn at a time until full turn. That use to be GM instruction while they were running with oil deflectors on the rockers.
The performance tip in the mopar performance Engine book for Mopar is zero for the track and 1/4-1/2 for the street. Just so you don't hear them. T/A engines were 1/4 turn on all of mine
Where did you hear 1/4 turn at a time until full turn. That use to be GM instruction while they were running with oil deflectors on the rockers.
The performance tip in the mopar performance Engine book for Mopar is zero for the track and 1/4-1/2 for the street. Just so you don't hear them. T/A engines were 1/4 turn on all of mine
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Respectfully disagree with part of your statement. The 0-1/4 turn part. If you run a factory hydraulic lifter with just spring clips at zero preload you’ll beat the clips out of em. Maybe with circlips they’ll last at zero but I’ve never tried. 020-030 preload is where they should be IMO.
You could be right with the chinese junk they are selling today. I ran all my engines with hydraulics at zero - 1/4 turn down as was described to do in the Direct connection engine manual. I never had a lifter failure. In today's world I would not consider a hydraulic lifter in any performance engine.
Bit of a controversy, eh? I also checked an article on Dragzine where they asked guys like Pat Musi and Scott Shafiroff and they recommend a 1/2 turn preload, set cylinder by cylinder and that's where she sits for now. The hydraulic lifters are new,oem Mopar. I appreciate all comments and always learn something new; thx!
1/2 turn would be the max . If you are using your pumped up lifters that you soaked make them zero. turn the engine a couple times and go 1/4 do it again and go another 1/4. The reason for this is, You may be holding the valves open with 1/2 if the lifters don't squash down when going to start it. You should be able to turn the push rod when the lifter is on the base of the lobe.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Scott Shafiroff and Pat Musi while both excellent engine builders probably haven’t run juice lifters in many many years. And to be completely honest, anyone who recommends a preload “turn” amount without knowing the thread pitch of whatever adjuster you’re using is guessing at best. The factory magnum lifters will work fine anywhere between 020-080 preload. I know because I’ve tested it.
Bakerlite
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It all depends what your building.
Race guys like 0 to 0.010 to 0.015. Some used to virtually bottom them out.
Street about 0.020
Bog stock granny car 0.020 to max before the plunger becomes inoperable.
Avoiding pumping up the lifters because of weak valve springs is something to consider.
As said, knowing the thread pitch of your adjuster will dictate how far you need to turn it to get "X" amount plunger depression.
I also pre oil / pump the lifters on the bench.. But don't try that trick at home.
Race guys like 0 to 0.010 to 0.015. Some used to virtually bottom them out.
Street about 0.020
Bog stock granny car 0.020 to max before the plunger becomes inoperable.
Avoiding pumping up the lifters because of weak valve springs is something to consider.
As said, knowing the thread pitch of your adjuster will dictate how far you need to turn it to get "X" amount plunger depression.
I also pre oil / pump the lifters on the bench.. But don't try that trick at home.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Jeff Seighman
aka jeffnmo
It's really not that hard, it just takes an easy touch. The plunger is all the up whether the lifter is pumped up or not, unless it's defective. If it feels spongy when adjusting zero lash, back off a bit.
How the heck did he bend valves? If you put in too much preload you essentially turn the lifter into a solid when you bottom out the plunger. Sooo he got too much valve lift and it hit the piston top?
Getting ready to install a new set of heads on my 360LA and 1.6 ratio rockers which will increase my valve lift by about .030 IIRC. Thread is very interesting to me. I was thinking zero lash + 1/4 turn.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
He bent the valves because fluid doesn’t compress. When you fill/pump up the lifters on the bench before firing the engine, then set preload on a full lifter, you’re not actually setting preload. You are opening the valve to what ever distance you think you’re setting preload to. Hence bent valves.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Sounds like pre-oiling the lifters kept the plungers from taking up the preload so it hung the valves open. I had that happen putting together my 5.9L Magnum short block with Edelbrock top end. I had to carefully rotate the engine every hour or so until the lifters bled down to the proper plunger depth and the valves were actually seated when on the cam base circle. I didn't pre-lube the lifters but somehow from sitting in a junkyard for a long time some of them pumped up.
All this arguing about preload, check out this page from Hughes and look at the part of the table "Standard Lifter pre-load"... https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...Z2UgTWFnbnVt&level1=Q2Ftc2hhZnQ=&partid=30210
I put together my 360 with around .080-.085" preload reusing the factory Magnum roller lifters and the valvetrain is dead silent. 8000+ hard miles and no issues either.
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So if I am reading this right he was not paying attention to preload at all... just reefed down the adjusters until they stopped moving and was actually opening the valves?
Bakerlite
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I started getting some Comp lifters that would not bleed up. Had 3 in one set.. So I started oil filling them and testing them before installation. I use to prime them years ago, but got a little lazy and just fitted them as recommended.
When they don't bleed up, it just kills the lifter, especially with heavy valve pressures.
Think about this, what do you think happens to the lifter in the engine when you remove the rocker gear and then put it back on?
When you float a valve and pump up a lifter does it stay pumped up for ever?
Ever adjusted a tappet in a running engine by backing off the tappet until it clicks, then tightening it down till it stops?
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
I wasn’t questioning your intelligence, sorry if it came off that way. I was just curious why/how you came to the conclusion that it’s best to fill/pump them up prior to installation. It can be done if you know what you are doing. I guess I am the exception to the rule because I disassemble every hydraulic lifter that I install to clean and inspect them, and make sure the check valve functions. You’d be surprised what I find in new hydraulic lifters. And FYI I know what happens when you float the valves and pump up a lifter, and yes I have adjusted them with the engine running. Almost burnt down a buddies garage in high school doing that on a 67 gto. Big oil fire. Never again.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
You don’t even have to “reef” them down all the way. Adjusting them with the lifters filled/pumped up will hang the valves open. It’s bad practice.
Bakerlite
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That's OK, I didn't think that. I was just putting up some food for thought.
People seem to worry about pumping up the lifter, but when you remove the rocker gear, say to change valve springs, the lifters actually pull in more oil and effectively "pump up".. Then they bolt on the rockers and run the engine oblivious to that fact.
If you preload a lifter at say 0.020, how much valve lift would that be if the lifter pumped up VS how much piston to valve clearance you should have?
Also when you prime the lifter, you don't need to prime it till it's solid..If you have had them apart, then you have seen how much oil they hold.
Also if you look in a Chrysler manual they warn you not to rev the engine above fast idle until the lifters bleed up. But that becomes an issue when you need to run in a cam...
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
Ah THAT'S why my Magnum roller lifters pumped up... Must have been oil left in the lifter galleries, when I unbolted the rockers at the junkyard they pulled in more oil.
I strongly lean towards doing a thorough prime on a fresh build to get the lifters pumped up to the proper height instead of priming the lifters individually out of the engine. Run the oil pump and slowly rotate the crank 2 full rotations, if your lifters aren't filled by then there's probably something wrong. In my mind that's the least-risky way to get the engine primed and ready for breaking in a flat-tappet cam.
Also it's a very good idea to take apart and clean out new hydraulic lifters, sometimes they have residue or whatever in them that can clog the tiny oil passages to the cylinder and plunger.
Bakerlite
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You can also just rotate the the engine until your on the firing stroke of each cylinder ( both cam lobes on their base) and prime the oil system while moving the pushrod side of the rocker down and up with your hand.
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