shimming hydraulic roller lifters solid

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360duster

360duster

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Hi Guys,

anybody successfully did this to the stock magnum HR lifters? If so, how is it done best? i think about precisely made inserts, no idea if such spacers need to be hardened or not....Thanks for input!

Michael
 
360duster said:
Hi Guys,

anybody successfully did this to the stock magnum HR lifters? If so, how is it done best? i think about precisely made inserts, no idea if such spacers need to be hardened or not....Thanks for input!

Michael
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It's been done, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there on the process or the specs used. I would use O1/W1 tool steel for the inserts and harden/temper to give some toughness to prevent peening but not so hard as to shatter. Similar hardness to the lifter should do. I would try to remove all the movement of the piston and fit each insert individually until the clip just goes in and seats correctly. No more than a couple thousandanths end clearance.
If I can find a decent pre-Magnum roller 360 LA that oils the heads through the block, I will attempt the conversion but up till now I haven't played with it. What I suggest may blow up after five minutes or it may go 50,000 miles. Should be fun and hopefully satisfying to find out. Was looking forward to RAMM's results but haven't heard a status update in a while.
 
Was wondering this myself.... i trust the OEM lifters and they are cheap.. but would like solid also :)
 
Other than the expense, why not just get some solid rollers? They offer significant weight savings over the longer bodies of the hydraulic rollers. Yeah, you have to get longer pushrods, but it is still gets you a lighter weight valvetrain overall.
 
crazydog said:
Other than the expense, why not just get some solid rollers? They offer significant weight savings over the longer bodies of the hydraulic rollers. Yeah, you have to get longer pushrods, but it is still gets you a lighter weight valvetrain overall.
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It's the expense of course, and it is a bit of old time hot-rodding. Making something work where it was not originally intended. Good solid roller lifters are very expensive compared to the OEM roller or a decent flat tappet. Not sure how much different they are in weight but you wouldn't have the link bars on the OEM type
 
For me it's the expense but even more is that i trust the lifters made by a OEM way more than aftermarket...
 
Not quite a solid conversion, but when I was cleaning my last set of magnum rollers, I happened to have a set of factory ls1 roller lifter in the shop. After tearing them both apart I realized that the internals are the same diameter between the two. So I took the ls internals and put them into my magnum lifter body.

Why did I do this?
We've all seen the abuse and rpms that the ls motors take in stock form, so if they can do it why can't we?

Big thing I noted was plunger travel distance between the lifters.
Ls lifter plunger travel was measured at .160"
Magnum plunger travel was measured at .215"
Magnum body with ls internals measured .130" plunger travel.

Will it actually work? I hope so, the motor is at the machine shop now, and once it's together it'll be going on the dyno for results.
 
I'm sure it can be and has been done successfully. My question about it is this. Since you must leave the plunger in, since that is what the pushrod seats on, how do you defeat the plunger from pumping up? Even after you remove the spring and check valve disc, Wouldn't the plunger still pump up some from oil pressure?
 
The cost of machining inserts, at the precision needed, out of the right materials etc, will be more than a set of lifters.

Plus all that "OEM" stuff is obviously out the door at this point.
 
Mean416 said:
The cost of machining inserts, at the precision needed, out of the right materials etc, will be more than a set of lifters.

Plus all that "OEM" stuff is obviously out the door at this point.
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Why does anything need machining? Once you remove the metering disc and spring, won't that defeat the pump up feature? That's kinda where I was going with my previous post.

This would essentially make them "oil metering" solid lifters. They have plungers but they don't pump up hydraulically.
 
I have seen this done successfully, the guts out of Chevrolet lifters fit perfectly into the bodies of LA/Magnum factory lifters. It may have been a combination of parts from both lifters, I honestly don't recall the exact process. I still have the sample set out in my garage. The Gentlemen that showed me this ran them in his Dart, and believe me, with him at the wheel they certainly get pressure tested! Lol.

To my knowledge he is still running this way after several years of hard service.
 
They don't have to be shimmed up tight to be solid. That's a misconception. All you need to do defeat the pump up feature. Then, they will work just like oil metering solid lifters do.
 
cpearce said:
I have seen this done successfully, the guts out of Chevrolet lifters fit perfectly into the bodies of LA/Magnum factory lifters. It may have been a combination of parts from both lifters, I honestly don't recall the exact process. I still have the sample set out in my garage. The Gentlemen that showed me this ran them in his Dart, and believe me, with him at the wheel they certainly get pressure tested! Lol.

To my knowledge he is still running this way after several years of hard service.
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Can you disassemble one and share some pictures of what's inside?
 
I have done it a few times with FT lifters. Roller lifters would be no different.
I used s/s washers stacked up to form the spacer under the piston. There is a small shoulder on the bottom of the piston that is used to hold the valving mechanism. Best to grind that off so that the bottom of the piston is flat, more surface area then to take the load.
 
I've also seen it suggested to find a snap ring that fits in where the factory wire clip is that holds the internals in the body.
 
Mean416 said:
The cost of machining inserts, at the precision needed, out of the right materials etc, will be more than a set of lifters.
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My time and use of my mill, lathe, and other machines is free to me. I realize that most people don't have access to equipment like that. A lot of times it is guys that do have it and like to play around that develop new products for the hobby that the factories or big aftermarket companies won't mess with.
 
thought about dumping the guts out of lifter and tig weld the cup back in lifter,...got a good friend thats a great weilder with too much free time....thats the lightest way i could think of!
 
dirty white boy said:
thought about dumping the guts out of lifter and tig weld the cup back in lifter,...got a good friend thats a great weilder with too much free time....thats the lightest way i could think of!
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Nope... the heat of the tig will change the cup, even a TINY TINY deformity will eat the pushrod quickly and lead to a bad day.... I think the best way would be to machine a alum plug to go under the plunger, as long as it fit tight enough to not let the plunger bounce it would hold up fine and not add much weight to the lifter.
 
So guys, I think there's still an issue. Sorry to be a negative Nancy.

Isn't it the typical aggressiveness of the solid roller cam that tends to cause lifter failures? And if you run the hydraulic solid hybrid with a typical SR cam profile, won't we expect to experience failures with the hybrid lifter as well?

I could see running this in a hyd roller profile ir a gentle SR profile but full tilt solid? Not sure.
 
I don't think there really has been a problem with solid roller lifters failing, other than the odd one that uses needle bearings. The problems has been with the hydraulic portions of that family of lifters, as well as some skanky face profiles on the non-roller lifters. I think the effort is to be able to reduce the cost of getting into a solid roller, at least it would be for me. I'd be running it on the street so would be more of a 6/10ths type of effort than all out race with .800" lift.
 
Well if you get it figured out you could probably market conversions kits
 
Mean416 said:
Well if you get it figured out you could probably market conversions kits
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That's what has me wondering if it can work. I'd have thought someone with more resources than myself would have pursued this over the last 20 years. Maybe it wasn't cost effect before, but now with a decent set of solid roller lifters getting so expensive the math may have changed.
Coming up with something that is user installed that will work within the tolerance envelope could be tricky. I've got a few things to get off my plate before I can put much time towards it.
 
Get an oil metering flat tappet solid lifter and disassemble it. See how it works and make your conversion based on that.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Get an oil metering flat tappet solid lifter and disassemble it. See how it works and make your conversion based on that.
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I've disassembled my SFT EDM lifters and it is an empty hyd lifter with the DDM hole on the face. Lifter body, cup, and snap ring. The OEM hyd roller needle bearings are splashed oil as far as I can tell. I'm not sure how they would hold up with a solid roller. A tight lash SR might work. I'm on the fence about sticking with a SFT/EDM lifter or spending the big bucks for a SR setup on my street strip motor.
 
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