spiral staircase for loft

Discussion in 'Shop, Garage and Tools' started by diymirage, May 24, 2017.

  1. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    I dont understand how you can get 8 1/2' back? I thought the top of the closet was 2'


    What beam are you referring to?
     
  2. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    I'll grab some better pictures tomorrow
    This room is on the main floor, but there is a finished basement below it
    It looks like the frame of the closet is 2x4s

    Now, do I read it right that you are suggesting I build a platform that sits on top of the closet, and extends out from There?
     
  3. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    20181009_194207_zpskkuvmr0v.jpg
     
  4. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    Just realised because you're sistering above existing studs it will look like this.

    20181009_195843_zpsm4ukg8y4.jpg



    The three board would be for a free spanning floor joist.

    Basically what your doing is building a small deck. Look up deck building on U tube and you should have a good idea of what need doing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  5. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    Thanks Cope, I'll look at those drawings when I am on a laptop and I can actually see them. In the meantime, here are a few pictures I've taken they don't show you a whole lot but what is really interesting is the trim on the inside of the closet. It leads me to believe that the inside of the closet was at some point the outside of a wall, because I don't see why else they would put that kind of trim on there. Which leads me to Hope that at least there is some structure in the frame of that closet.

    The first two pictures are the top of the closet / Landing, then there is the outside trim of the closet and finally inside of the closet

    20181010_084724.jpg

    20181010_084751.jpg

    20181010_084827.jpg

    20181010_084850.jpg
     
  6. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    missed this post somehow
    the 8 1/2 foot is the width of the closet/landing that is there now, and it is indeed only 2 foot deep

    the beam i am referring to, if we stick with our deck analogy, would be long horizontal section of the deck frame
    (sorry, im not a carpenter, and some of this makes sense in my head, but i dont know how to say it in a way that makes sense to a carpenter)
     
  7. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    That "beam" would be called a ledger.
    It should be held in place with big screws, use these in 4". RSS™ Rugged Structural Screw
    Two on each stud, dont burry the head. Make sure they are center of your studs.

    Use these to hang your new joist ( when referring to joist, no matter if you have one joist or fifty, its always joist. Not joists.) In 8.5" you should have seven joist. Plus one top plate on each wall. Giving you a total 9 new joist to hold your floor. Seven can be hung off the ledger and the hangars. Like these.

    APLH

    The Last two I would sister into the top plates. This will require cutting the drywall.

    Now we have nine joist sticking out and floating. dont count the first our the last joist. Start on number 3. Come in from the end 1.5" and attach your floor to ceiling stud ( post in the deck world). Do that on joist numbers 3, 5, 7. Now make blocks out of 2x4 that are 16" and tie all the ends of the joist together. These blocks will but up to the new stud (post) and be flush with the end of the joist. (That's why our posts are set back 1.5" :) ) now its looking like something right but it's not done yet cut one more 2x4 that is the entire length from joist 1 to 9 and cap all the joist ends and blocks with one solid piece of lumber.

    Now you can lay your 3/4 plywood. Make sure it goes all the way back to where the roof hit the wall. You want as much nailing (use 3" screws, nailing is a term) as you can get. This will make it very strong.

    As I'm typing this I get the feeling you wanna build this without busting and replacing drywall? While its ALMOST possible I would not do it like that. In that note tho, I realised that the three floor to ceiling studs don't need to be like that. For one you dont wanna bust drywall to tie into the roof and two the entire thing is in compression anyway.

    So for those 3 posts, (now they truly are just posts, they're no longer studs) just come up 36" above the new floor of the loft and BAM, slap a 2x4 across the top. This caps the cut ends of the posts and is the hand rail for the loft. Just fill in with 1×1 every 2 or 3 inches and you got a fine looking deck rail!

    Now we still gotta build an opening for your dang stairs so I'll have to see the stairs, top and bottom, diameter of the spiral and does the spiral even work at the height of your new floor...

    AGAIN THIS IS NOT GONNA PASS CODE (although it might if you used 4x4 for the posts?) I never built a deck inside a house...
     
  8. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    Wow I think that's the longest post I've ever written on here.. feeling a little like Mr AJ...

    :)
     
  9. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    thanks Cope, that makes perfect sense
    i have some of the screws you mentioned from a carport were building outside (contractor buddy thought that up, so i know its good)

    as for the attachement of the stairs, that i the easy part
    if you look at the picture in the first post, that is how the spiral stairs will also attach
    (there is a channel welded to the stairs, that will bolt to the deck...the outer ledger?)

    so that is easy, we just run the railing short at the very end

    20181010_121912.jpg
     
  10. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    couple more measurements, the channel in the above pic is 89 inches from the ground
    the top of the landing right now is 97 inches high, which means the last step will be about 22 inches
    it also means i need to find a way to mount it, because right now it will go under the outside ledger

    now, on the floor, wouldnt it make sense to lay that down before we do the floor to ceiling studs?
    seems easier and sturdier because then it can hit he joist cap/outer ledger?
     
  11. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    so, i think it makes more sense (and would be a whole lot cleaner/sturdier) if i build a pedestal to put the stairs on
    this would act as the first step and ensure that the last step levels real nice with the "deck"

    now, one last question before i start tomorrow (ok, 2)
    @Cope, you mentioned 7 joist (no S, see, im learning already) i take it i space them out evenly?

    and the two outer joist (i know, were not counting them) those get the same structural screws into the studs as well, right?

    and when the cap goes on, i jsut screw them into the joist right, no joist hangers there?
     
  12. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    The first and the last joist will be in hangars and also screwed into the wall studs. They basically become just like the first ledger only shorter.

    Space the studs out even, 12 or 16" is code.

    When you pick a screw remember the length of the screw is twice the length of what your screwing through. So when you screw through 1.5" 2x4 you want a 3" screw but remember now you're screwing through drywall also. That's why I recomend 4" screws for the three ledger boards.

    I dont understand what your talking about laying down first?

    You do not want a 22 inch step. Uneven step heights get folks hurt. Your brain ain't ready for steps to change heights and you trip falling down the stairs.. its BAD.

    I had a home owner btching to the inspector one time that one step was 1/8th inch higher and how dangerous it was. The inspector looked at him and said "it's fine, maybe you should go inside".... I think the inspector didn't want me to bash the guy with my hammer....

    No need for hangars on the cap end. The ends get tied together with short blocks then the entire thing gets capped making it very solid.

    Remember this is built like a deck but its tied into a closet that I cant see the framing on and have no idea how well its built. This is for kids, not storing engine blocks or dance partys....

    Best of luck and post lots of pics as you build it so I and the rest can see how it looks.

    In fact I'll send you my number and you can call me with any questions as I'll be working and not checking this site.
     
  13. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    ok, a few updates

    the closet frame is strong enough to hold my 210 pounds, so thats a good sign
    on the right hand side, there is a horizontal beam in the wall, so i will be able to support part of the deck on there as well

    on the left hand side, im just going to have to find studs

    i got the ledger in, as per Cope's instructions, so 2 RSSs (not ROUS's that would be bad) deadcenter on the studs
    of course my local hardware store didnt have any concealed flange/inverse flare joist hangers for 2X4s so i bought two for 2X6s and cut them down, and installed regular joist hangers at 12 1/2 inch intervals (for 7 total)

    once i decide the exact width of the deck, i can start cutting joist and install them
    looks like im making pretty decent progress here

    (pay no mind to the extension cord coming out of the wall, that will be cut and wired into a wall outlet before this project is finished)

    20181011_091946.jpg

    20181011_091951.jpg

    20181011_114232.jpg

    20181011_114244.jpg
     
  14. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    Ok, I decided the joists need to be 48 inches
    That will put the outer edge 26 inches past the closet wall, which gives me a 1 inch error margin because I think in need 25 inches under the deck for the stairs

    I got about 5 of the joists in before I ran out of time , but I only took a picture of the first
    (As you can tell, I found 3 studs there)

    20181011_144120.jpg
     
  15. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    Joist progress

    1539287056285466617195.jpg

    15392871036451813046141.jpg
     
  16. Cope

    Cope Well-Known Member

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    Ok, now I get why we weren't on the same page.
    Nothing wrong with that.

    Looks good bud!
     
  17. diymirage

    diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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    Glad to hear that

    Thanks for all your help

    I'll chop some blocks here shortly, get the cap on and call it a day
     
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    • diymirage

      diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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      Got the blocks and cap on
      I'll hopefully deck it tomorrow

      20181011_192825.jpg
       
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      • diymirage

        diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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        It looks like the deck will be about 101 inches
        The stairs are 90 inches to the top, so I just need to build a box 12 by 25, by 11 inches tall to set the stairs on and then i can figure out where the railings will go
         
      • Cope

        Cope Well-Known Member

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        That's looking realy good! Great job.
         
      • diymirage

        diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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        thanks Cope

        as @AJ/FormS mentioned, i need to make sure the back part of the deck doesnt seesaw when i put weight on the front
        the two outer joist are secured with RSS (6 on ones, 8 on the other) in studs and a horizontal beam
        the ledger also has RSSs in it, AND the stairs will also be acting as a post so im not too worried about the whole thing tipping over

        however...i was considering putting a "double" wall on the very back, above the ledger by running a few studs up to the ceiling
        that way, even if all the other supports would fail, and the front end would try to teeter totter down, the roof/ceiling pressing down on the double wall and keep everything in place

        does that sound like it makes sense and is worth the effort or am i over thinking things?
         
      • diymirage

        diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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        so it looks like i need to trim the post down to make it fit
        since there is a pitch to the ceiling, it would be hard for me to cut it nicely, at an angle that matches and looks good

        would it be a good idea to cut the post level with the deck, and have the railing right there, or should i cut it level with the top of the railing?
         
      • Cope

        Cope Well-Known Member

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        Cut it at railing height minus the 1.5" for the cap rail.
         
      • diymirage

        diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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        ooh, i like that idea, that would look nice

        i got the decking in, 2 sheets, 48X51 and on strip of 7 1/2X51 in the center
        i dont like how the center one sit, so ill tear that off tomorrow, trim it and put it back

        i also got the box built that the stairs will sit on
        i made it 10 1/2 tall, 12 wide and 28 long
        the frame of the box are 4 simple pieces of 4x4, so that the stairs will sit solidly on that

        im afraid im about as far as i can go, until i get the stairs painted and in the room
         
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        • diymirage

          diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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          Got a little more work done (I'll upload some pics, then edit in the text on my laptop)

          ok, so this first pic shows the left hand railing frame
          i glued and screwed it together, then mocked it up and put a few drywall anchors behind it

          20181013_170308.jpg

          20181013_170752.jpg

          i obviously wouldnt trust these anchors to hold it up, but i dont mind them for extra support

          View attachment 1715235085

          my little boy helping out, seems like it holds him up just fine
          he better enjoy it while he can, because im sure once its done his sister will turn it into a "girls only" place

          here i have both frames up
          screwed into the deck, a few anchors in the left wall and ceiling, and a few more screws on the right wall (seems to be wood all the way)

          if your wondering why there are 2x4s in the center, that is where the stairs will attach

          20181013_180923.jpg

          20181013_183806.jpg

          finally, i started putting some slats up, tongue and groove
          i had one more box laying around from when i insulated a shed

          almost made it all the way across, but i was a few slats shy

          i guess one more box of slats, some carpet and im done...except for the stairs

          20181013_193419.jpg

          oh, and i know the railing is not up to code, im not worried about it, the wife allready informed me we will die in this house (she didnt give me a timeline on that one) so...not my problem
           
          Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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