Starting/Charging issues (long)

[rp23g7]

Ok, before I start this, let me say i am a electical dork, electicity is FM to me. I have been a mechanic since i was 15, now 41, but i have never really understood electical stuff. And the post is long to try to exlpain the car and how it is usually operated.

Now, for whats going on with my car.

I picked up this 71 Scamp 2 weekes ago, it was sitting for a few months in garage. the previous owner before that did a lot of work to it also, looks like a lot of remove and replace stuff, it all looks good though.

Over the last two weeks it started to not start with the key, you may have read some of my previous posts.

Well, I hooked up a remote starter to the starter, and it starts when you turn the key and hit the switch, so i assume its the relay and not the NSS.

So a relay is a future purchase.

Now, it has been having charging issues i believe. The starter has been getting increasingly labored at starting.

I only have a 2 mile drive to work, which i admit that doesnt give much time to charge the car, especially in the morning, with lights on and if its raining the wipers too.

Yesterday, it was raining on the way to work, so i kind of let it run when i got there, after work it started with a few cranks. It wasnt raining, so no accessories on.

I also have the idle up a bit, the carb needs rebuilding and is running rich at idle, its idleing probably at 800, so i assume the alternator should be putting out enough power.

So, this morning i had to jump it, it wasnt dead, but it cranked slow enough not to start by itself.

I jumped it, let it run 15 min or so, then drove to work, with lights on, nothing else.

as i side note i had the key on when i jumped it, something somewhere smoked. dont know what yet, but it started and ran fine.

got to work, let it run a bit, shut it off. came out at break to run to the store, battey dead.

Now, i am assuming its the alternator, as this is what charges the battery. but when the car is running the lights are pretty bright, but at idle with other things on like the wipers, it really seems like ther is a load on it.

This morning when i was letting it run, the dome light was really bright, so i assume that it was charging ok. but at break the battery was dead, and the dome light barely lit.

The car has a amp guage on it, people in these posts say these are a problem, and to by pass them, Why, and how?

Mine never seems to really move, at least when i pay attention to it. Hit the brakes, or turn the lights on, nothing really.

My C body had constant voltage regulator issues, could this be a issue?

Sorry for the long post, wondering if someone had any ideas.

 

[OldVart]

The two first things I would do in your case are to check the wiring at the bulkhead connector, and bypass the Ammeter. I had more electrical gremlins with my 66 than I care to remember until I did those two things.
For a quick and dirty bypass on the Ammeter, unhook the battery, take the hot wire from the left (driver's) post of the ammeter and move it with the other wire on the right (passenger's) side post.
Pull apart the bulkhead connector on the outside of the firewall that has the large red wire, usually in the upper right (passenger's) corner, and see if it's burned or arced inside the connector. This is very common on these old Mopars, especially if the ammeter is causing problems.
Once these two variables are taken care of, then you can continue normal troubleshooting procedures if you still encounter problems. Good luck.

 

[rp23g7]

And what exactly does bypassing the ammeter do?

If the bulkhead connector has a issue, what should a check first?

 

[redfastback]

first off, bypassing the ammeter is a safety issue. an ammeter is a bridge to see amp flow and higher than normal can fry this gauge or the gauge can just go. you need to put a multi meter on the hot post of the alternator and see if it is charging. must be at least 13.5 volts but not more than 15. red to post, black to ground somewhere. next, while starting it, have the volt meter on the battery and see how many volts it drops when it starts. more than 2-3 volts is a bad battery.

 

[rp23g7]

Hmm maybe thats what smoked this morning, since i had the key on, when i attached the jumper cables. oops

 

[OldVart]

And what exactly does bypassing the ammeter do?

If the bulkhead connector has a issue, what should a check first?

The ammeter is a possible fire source, replace it with a voltmeter.

Once you open up the bulkhead connectors, inspect them very closely for burned areas on the case itself, as well as signs of arcing. If there's a problem, it should be quite evident. Also, sometimes the spade type connectors get burned enough thay are barely making contact with the other half of the firewall connector. You can get replacement spade connectors, but if things are bad enough, you can eliminate the connector completely and run a wire straight through, with no connector. There's some really good articles on madelectric.com about these changes.

 

[rp23g7]

Replace it with a volt meter? Is that easy? Eliiminate connectors and run a straight wire? Is that easy?

I have looked at those articles, but electical stuff kinda scares me, dont really know much about it and dont want to end up frying stuff. I usually just replace the whole thing instead of doing the solder and splice thing, I am a electical scardycat.

Checking stuff with a volt meter doesnt mean much to me, i see the reading , but dont know what it should be in the first place, and what the lowest good reading would be.

Any one got a website for electical dummies??

 

[rp23g7]

WoW i was just reading http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

does the amp guage circuit really handle the recharge current too, maybe thats why my battery has been dying recently.

 

[BJS racing]

It sounds to me like you have many critters in your wiring. I would do the things that were discussed earlier and then start looking into the rest of the system. You may want to think about a rewire on the car.

 

[rp23g7]

yeah i was planning to rewire the whole thing. and i am going to try to do that bypass procedure.

As a side note, i went out at lunch and tried looking at the gauge, felt up there and the connections were real loose. I tightened them up the best i could and the car started.

I gotta go through the hole thing i guess. I dont think the previous owner was a very good mechanic, or got distracted and didint finish what they started.

 

[C130 Chief]

A few questions comments and suggestions.
First the suggestions:
1) Get a basic multimeter, read it's instructions and learn how to use it. Your local parts house should be able to hook you up for 20 bucks and change.
2) Always disconnect the battery before doing ANYTHING to the electrical system.
3) Start simple, make sure all of the main connections on the battery cables as well as the bulkhead connector are clean and tight.
4) ALWAYS disconnect the battery BEFORE doing ANYTHING to the electrical system.
5) Don't go nuts rewiring the car; find the problem first. OEM wiring is generally trouble free until it gets monkeyed with, and seldom of any use once it has been "improved". If you do chose to rewire, make it better than the factory (crimp terminals and non-rated wire from the corner parts store is not better).
6) ALWAYS DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE DOING ANYTHING TO THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM!
7) Disconnect the negative (-) terminal first. I know it sounds obvious, but I have seen ASE certified mechanics burn their hands, weld a wrench to a fender and destroy a battery by disregarding this obvious step (it takes about 0.7 seconds!)

Comments:
1) If the lights were bright with the engine running, the alternator is putting out current, and it is making it to the dash. If the battery is going dead, either the current is not making it to the battery, or the battery is junk.
2) Bypassing the ammeter is a common mod, and one that most of us will do eventually. The ammeter is in line with the "everything wire" which runs between the alternator and all of the loads on the car (headlight and ignition switches and the battery). Unfortunately when the ammeter fails, the circuit opens, and the alternator can no longer supply current to these loads and we become pedestrians verry soon as the battery goes flat (typically a dark cold rainy night when you are wearing nice clothes and in a hurry). A simple bypass is easy, just place both wires on one of the binding posts. A better bypass is to run a 8AWG wire from the alternator straight to the positive battery cable (and thus taking the charging load out of the bulkhead connector).
3) If you do add a voltmeter, connect it to the ACC bus on the ignition switch (radio or heater fuse for example).

Questions:
1) What is the voltage at the alternator with the engine running at 1500 RPM (fast idle)?
2) Is the battery any good?
3) What is the voltage at the battery with the engine at 1500 RPM?
4) What is the voltage at the center post of the cigarette lighter at 1500 RPM?

Good luck, automotive electrics are pretty simple, just resist temptation to make "quick and dirty" fixes, and don't second guess the engineers that designed it in the first place.