Steering gear break in period?

-
Traxfish

Traxfish

Convertible Cruiser
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
77
Reaction score
21
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
I took my 68 318 Barracuda to a local shop for some suspension work, and they ended found excessive play in the pitman arm, so they recommended replacing the steering gear. They then found insufficient output in the factory Federal steering pump, and replaced it with a Saginaw, which they had to do research on and trial and error with mounting brackets and pulleys but they got it mounted. The pump appears to be an late 70s period OEM pump. However, they ended up with the problem that the steering assist was weak and the steering wheel would turn to lock by it's self if you let it. They said it was a bad gear and overnighted another one under warranty, but it's still doing it. They released it to me saying the pump has a break in period and will get better, but it'll still resist turning, it won't return to center on it's own in a low speed high angle turn, and if I let it the steering wheel would turn to lock by it's self.

Saying the gear needs broken in doesn't sound right, and the other's I've talked to about it said it's just a bad gear. Does this sound like something that happens with steering gears? Needing to be broken in?
 
Professor Fate said:
No offense, but I think you found a shop that just likes throwing parts at things and taking your money...
Alignment specialist confirms: Bad power steering box | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum
Power Steering box turns hard left when steering wheel released - yikes! | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum
and many other threads on "adjusting centering valve". Search it.
Click to expand...

That was my fear. A big clue was when I picked it up and the mechanic said three people test drove it, himself included, but I could immediately tell the steering wheel was ~45 deg out of alinement. I brought it back immediately pretty peeved and they did fix that day with no additional cost but come on.. The bill certainly was pretty hefty which leaves me rather upset getting a car back with the steering feeling worse than when I dropped it off.
 
Chrysler power steering boxes Have a valve pivot lever that has to be centered.This is where the pressure hose connects to the top of the box.Also known as the valve body assembly. You have to loosen the bolts and slide the valve body till the valve is centered.The valve slides front to back. I don't remember if front is left or rearward.
You have to just move it(small amounts) to see if it steers on its own left or right. Move it until you get it centered
If I was there it could be done in less than 5 minutes.
Who ever did your work knows nothing about Chrysler product and gave you a real shaft job.
You can find a on line service manual that details all of this.
It may even be on You Tube.
 
Just what @Darter6 said. You only move the valve body thousands of an inch while adjusting. There's a thread on here somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

Also like said above, it only takes 5 minutes to do... Not difficult at all.
 
Darter6 said:
Chrysler power steering boxes Have a valve pivot lever that has to be centered.This is where the pressure hose connects to the top of the box.Also known as the valve body assembly. You have to loosen the bolts and slide the valve body till the valve is centered.The valve slides front to back. I don't remember if front is left or rearward.
You have to just move it(small amounts) to see if it steers on its own left or right. Move it until you get it centered
If I was there it could be done in less than 5 minutes.
Who ever did your work knows nothing about Chrysler product and gave you a real shaft job.
You can find a on line service manual that details all of this.
It may even be on You Tube.
Click to expand...

So, I've been reviewing the service manual and searching steering boxes online and I've noticed what's in there now isn't the same unit as what was in before or what's in the service manual, so it won't help me adjust it. Photos inserted below. I am not sure what style it is or where to look to adjust it. Looking through Yearone, it looks a lot like this one.
1966-74 A B E-Body Rebuilt Power Steering Gearbox All 196...

The real puzzling thing is that this is a pretty big shop that always has a bunch of classic cars in it, including obscure things like a Nash Metropolitan and early 1920s roadsters. There was even a Duster undergoing a 6.2 hemi transplant plus a full power disc brake swap in the bay next to my barracuda so the idea that this simple install could be so badly botched is especially hard to swallow.


20220707_210027.jpg
20220707_210032.jpg
20220707_210051.jpg
 
You found a shop that doesn't know its *** from a hole in the ground. Get a factory service manual, a factory style steering gearbox and learn how to do it yourself. It's not hard and you'll have it right when it's done.
 
And now we know the rest of the story.
Sorry Traxfish,I didn't know it was a aftermarket box.
 
Darter6 said:
And now we know the rest of the story.
Sorry Traxfish,I didn't know it was a aftermarket box.
Click to expand...
Probably still not the whole story. I'm learning it with you all as I investigate lol. No apology needed. Still gotta figure out what design this is or if there's someone I can call for it. It may be that he was told this specific unit needs broken in and can't be adjusted like an oem one. Looking for OEM ones like the previous one I could only find one source with rebuilt ones. There seems to be an adjustment screw on top of the aftermarket one, but I don't know how to use it and don't want to fiddle with it blindly.
 
Usually that screw is to adjust play.That slight amount of "Give or free play" in the steering wheel before the wheels start to turn.
That also has to be adjusted with the steering straight ahead. Steering boxes are built with what is known as "High Point" that is the center point between the full left and right stops. Say from full left to full right the wheel takes 6 complete turns of the steering wheel. High Point would be half that and should center at 3 turns.
Let me ask you this. When you start the car do the wheels start to turn,left or right on there own with no input from the steering wheel ? OR is it when the car is moving ?
 
Darter6 said:
Usually that screw is to adjust play.That slight amount of "Give or free play" in the steering wheel before the wheels start to turn.
That also has to be adjusted with the steering straight ahead. Steering boxes are built with what is known as "High Point" that is the center point between the full left and right stops. Say from full left to full right the wheel takes 6 complete turns of the steering wheel. High Point would be half that and should center at 3 turns.
Let me ask you this. When you start the car do the wheels start to turn,left or right on there own with no input from the steering wheel ? OR is it when the car is moving ?
Click to expand...
No, there is definitely a dwell with the steering wheel strait, so it feels like manual steering once the car is moving at significant speed and turning along bends requires very minor steering input. Once there's significant turn to the wheel in either direction feeling is varied, with less assist than before, and it feels like a bump or uneven resistance to turning. After even more turning the wheel wants to walk all the way to lock. When stationary it's very minor due to the resistance in the wheels but while coasting at idle it will free wheel to lock and not return to center. It does this in either direction.
 
@BergmanAutoCraft is a member/sponsor here and sells aftermarket power steering for Mopars.
It may be that you have the same type box. If so maybe he can help.
It is possible that you have a defective box.
 
Traxfish said:
but while coasting at idle it will free wheel to lock and not return to center. It does this in either direction.
Click to expand...

When working correctly you should be able to raise the front wheels off the ground, start the car and the steering wheel should not move.

Until it's fix be careful not to have a finger or arm in the steering wheel!! Hopefully Peter will chime in, I'm sure he's seen that box before.
 
The box in photo #8 is most likely from Lares. I don't know anything about it, other than some random negative comments through the internet. I'm sure its offshore sourced, but again, I can't comment any further. Our box kits aren't cheap, especially with all costs rising. However, there are some critical systems on these cars worth spending money on, steering is one of them. From what I observe, brakes are something most people don't want to spend money one. I don't get it...
 
BergmanAutoCraft said:
The box in photo #8 is most likely from Lares. I don't know anything about it, other than some random negative comments through the internet. I'm sure its offshore sourced, but again, I can't comment any further. Our box kits aren't cheap, especially with all costs rising. However, there are some critical systems on these cars worth spending money on, steering is one of them. From what I observe, brakes are something most people don't want to spend money one. I don't get it...
Click to expand...

It does look like the Lares 11033 new power steering box that I got through Classic Industries cheaper than that. I put it in my 72 Duster and it didn't like the way I was bleeding it or something. It was very unruly and making noises. I kept bleeding it changed to stands under the outer lower control arms instead of jacking by middle of k frame. It started getting better then. Drove it around 4 or 5 times now. No noise and a lot smoother . The car was holding a pretty good line at 60 mph on a not so perfect road and turned and handled ok. Much better than it was acting at first. Get the air out of the lines by working the wheel slowly back and forth not running, then running. Topping off fluid, letting it cool down. I had a post a few weeks ago. Also, I had an old Federal type pump I replaced due to squealing bearing. I replaced it with a new replacement Federal type which also came from Classic Industries.
 
Last edited:
Traxfish said:
No, there is definitely a dwell with the steering wheel strait, so it feels like manual steering once the car is moving at significant speed and turning along bends requires very minor steering input. Once there's significant turn to the wheel in either direction feeling is varied, with less assist than before, and it feels like a bump or uneven resistance to turning. After even more turning the wheel wants to walk all the way to lock. When stationary it's very minor due to the resistance in the wheels but while coasting at idle it will free wheel to lock and not return to center. It does this in either direction.
Click to expand...
If I am understanding correctly, maybe you have a brake drag or a low tire pressure in the front. It is correct, you need to center your gear box from left to right or your steering system could over heat while on a long trip. Almost "0" pressure in system while at center. If you ever turn your wheel all the way left or right you will or should hear a whining sound, that is the pressure release valve bypassing the built up pressure of the fluid. By the way, that is how you blead the system after replacing parts.
 
Traxfish said:
I took my 68 318 Barracuda to a local shop for some suspension work, and they ended found excessive play in the pitman arm, so they recommended replacing the steering gear. They then found insufficient output in the factory Federal steering pump, and replaced it with a Saginaw, which they had to do research on and trial and error with mounting brackets and pulleys but they got it mounted. The pump appears to be an late 70s period OEM pump. However, they ended up with the problem that the steering assist was weak and the steering wheel would turn to lock by it's self if you let it. They said it was a bad gear and overnighted another one under warranty, but it's still doing it. They released it to me saying the pump has a break in period and will get better, but it'll still resist turning, it won't return to center on it's own in a low speed high angle turn, and if I let it the steering wheel would turn to lock by it's self.

Saying the gear needs broken in doesn't sound right, and the other's I've talked to about it said it's just a bad gear. Does this sound like something that happens with steering gears? Needing to be broken in?
Click to expand...
YJR SPOOL VALVE IS NOT ADDJSTED RIGHT
FINDA OLD MOPAR MECHANIC YHE 30 -40Y/O "KDS DONT KNOW **** ABOUT OLD CARS .!
-
 
Traxfish said:
I took my 68 318 Barracuda to a local shop for some suspension work, and they ended found excessive play in the pitman arm, so they recommended replacing the steering gear. They then found insufficient output in the factory Federal steering pump, and replaced it with a Saginaw, which they had to do research on and trial and error with mounting brackets and pulleys but they got it mounted. The pump appears to be an late 70s period OEM pump. However, they ended up with the problem that the steering assist was weak and the steering wheel would turn to lock by it's self if you let it. They said it was a bad gear and overnighted another one under warranty, but it's still doing it. They released it to me saying the pump has a break in period and will get better, but it'll still resist turning, it won't return to center on it's own in a low speed high angle turn, and if I let it the steering wheel would turn to lock by it's self.

Saying the gear needs broken in doesn't sound right, and the other's I've talked to about it said it's just a bad gear. Does this sound like something that happens with steering gears? Needing to be broken in?
Click to expand...
I agree with Professor Fate, wear in the pitman arm should just be a new pitman arm. What happened to all the parts they removed? Hosers likely tossed them, and probably nothing wrong. Sounds like a shop not to return to and also make famous or infamous.
 
Dale Davies said:
I agree with Professor Fate, wear in the pitman arm should just be a new pitman arm. What happened to all the parts they removed? Hosers likely tossed them, and probably nothing wrong. Sounds like a shop not to return to and also make famous or infamous.
Click to expand...

So as an update, it does seem to be getting better. It occasionally wants to return to center, but still needs the help. The feedback to lock is worst when I am backing out of a parking space and trying to turn all the way the opposite direction and I hit the gas. Then the steering wheel wants to jump out of my hand towards opposite lock if I let it. I talked to the mechanic who told me it's the tolerances of the valve that redirects the fluid to the power chambers. That's paraphrasing as I understood it as I don't know exactly how the fluid is redirected.

As stated before, I am reluctant to give them the death penalty just yet because I've seen them working on other A bodies and they always have classic cars in shop. The mechanic also wanted me to keep him updated and seemed wanting to see the issue to the end. I will want to make sure it's on his dime though, not mine, as I feel like I've already paid for the service.

I did state to save all removed parts for my own dissection, and I just try to keep as much as I can. The old federal pump and associated bracketing was saved, but he said there was a core charge on the gearbox and that had to be returned. Specifically, the problem was said to be the bushings inside of the box causing excessive play in pitman arm, so I am not sure why it couldn't be rebuilt.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top