still getting hot 500

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ice1 dart

ice1 dart

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Got a 75 dart swinger with a big block 440 stroked out to a 500. i have a mild roller rocker comp cam with a 113 lsa split. the cam duration @ .050 is 230/236 and lobe lift is at .389/391. mechanical timing is set at 0" and the heads are edelbrock 84 cc rpm heads. The total compression is 10.7 :1 Block is freshly boiled and rebuilt with no scales nor cracks.

Fuel deliveriy is a first gen edelbock pro flow series multiport fuel injection w/42lb injectors. Per edelbrock base distributor timing is set at 10deg BTDC. This system will allow individual ajustement to timing and fuel electronically from hand held. Fuel is running a little on the fat side so lean problem here. (A/F range from 12.5-14)

Cooling system is being pushed with a high flow edelbrock w/p and it has high flow 180 deg tstat. The radiator is an alum Champion down flow radiator 26w X 22 h (total including tanks). I believe its a three core radiator. (not sure/ overall thickness is about 3") The fans are two electric pushers (16" (3630 CFM) and 12"(unknown) (no room for a shroud) Fans are set to come on approximately 180-185.

Problem: At idle and cruise the temp will slowly and progressively get hotter until I am forced to shut it off at around 211-213. During cruise the process is a little faster. While cruisng at 60mph (RPM is about 1300-1400) the temp will steady off but as the journey continues so does the temp. Fans will kick on but will not cycle off. Feels like engine is generating too much heat that the radiator cannot shed it off.

Spoke to a few people and they believe it was the electronic timing in either each individual cells or in the global (overall) timing. Played with the adjustment by retarding and advancing the timing and felt a little difference in proformance and very little change in condition. (so far no pinging that i can here or feel)

Others people believe it is a mechanical problem and is blaming the cooling system overall. I dont believe this is the problem because the radiator is rated for 750+ hp and the fans are moving a ton of air. (3630 CFM plus whatever the 12" is pushing).

I feel I need to dyno and tune the engine so i can eliminate one suspicion but speaking to a dyno guy in my area, he feels it will not solve the problem and believes its more mechanical.

Im stumped..... Need help....Dyno? or No Dyno? Cooling System Problem or timing problem ?

If anyone is running this system, your advice or at least a known good shop in the northern california bay area that can help is greatly appreciated. Hehehe. (Slowly giving up on figuring it out myself.) :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Getting hot at idle is normally a sign of not enough airflow.

If it gets hot at idle but cools out on the open road (over about 40ish mph) it is almost guaranteed to be an airflow issue.
 
Also 3600 CFM is on the low/mid side for a stock big block.
You may be forced into a mechanical clutch fan with a shroud.
 
That Champion radiator was a loser for cooling my 500.I fought it for 6 months till I threw in the towel and got a Griffin with 2 rows of,1.25 tubes. The tiny tubes in the champion wouldnt cool mine.I tried timing, jetting,restrictors, different stats,till I ruled out everything. Champions may be ok for small blocks or mild rb,s but they aint worth a crap for our big strokers.
 
so i guess playing with the timing is not the problem and i should concentrate more on the cooling and air flow.
 
One thing to consider is sealing the hood to the radiator support as well as the sides too. That hot air can swirl and actually get suck back through the radiator. I have a Northern Dual Pass Radiator with 1" tubes and its not enough for my 451. Have to wait on Griffin since they are out of 1.5" tubes for 3-4 weeks. Im sick of screwing around with radiators that other people say work great on their car and im getting basically a Nascar crossflow 2 row 1.5" tube radiator designed to be used in drafting lol! Dont plan on needing another one.
 
Cooling issues suck, been there and done that. I don't have a badass stroker engine but it is a big block in an a-body and I learned a lot about cooling systems while troubleshooting my setup.

I agree with some of the other posters here, it seems to me that not enough air is going through the radiator for it to effectively transfer the heat from your coolant to the air. First, you mentioned that you have two pusher fans. If your coolant temperature never gets low enough for the relay to shut them off then they are definitely preventing air from flowing through your radiator while cruising. Also, as someone else mentioned, hood seals are crucial to making sure that air goes through the radiator. It will find a way around if at all possible so make sure the hood is sealed well and the radiator is sealed to the core support as well.

It looks in your picture like you have some sort of hood scoop. I cant tell what type, is it functional? If so, is it sealed to the carb? If the scoop is functional but not sealed to the carb you will have all sorts of turbulence inside your engine compartment preventing cool, outside air from moving through your radiator.
 
ice1 dart said:
Got a 75 dart swinger with a big block 440 stroked out to a 500. i have a mild roller rocker comp cam with a 113 lsa split. the cam duration @ .050 is 230/236 and lobe lift is at .389/391. mechanical timing is set at 0" and the heads are edelbrock 84 cc rpm heads. The total compression is 10.7 :1 Block is freshly boiled and rebuilt with no scales nor cracks.

Fuel deliveriy is a first gen edelbock pro flow series multiport fuel injection w/42lb injectors. Per edelbrock base distributor timing is set at 10deg BTDC. This system will allow individual ajustement to timing and fuel electronically from hand held. Fuel is running a little on the fat side so lean problem here. (A/F range from 12.5-14)

Cooling system is being pushed with a high flow edelbrock w/p and it has high flow 180 deg tstat. The radiator is an alum Champion down flow radiator 26w X 22 h (total including tanks). I believe its a three core radiator. (not sure/ overall thickness is about 3") The fans are two electric pushers (16" (3630 CFM) and 12"(unknown) (no room for a shroud) Fans are set to come on approximately 180-185.

Problem: At idle and cruise the temp will slowly and progressively get hotter until I am forced to shut it off at around 211-213. During cruise the process is a little faster. While cruisng at 60mph (RPM is about 1300-1400) the temp will steady off but as the journey continues so does the temp. Fans will kick on but will not cycle off. Feels like engine is generating too much heat that the radiator cannot shed it off.

Spoke to a few people and they believe it was the electronic timing in either each individual cells or in the global (overall) timing. Played with the adjustment by retarding and advancing the timing and felt a little difference in proformance and very little change in condition. (so far no pinging that i can here or feel)

Others people believe it is a mechanical problem and is blaming the cooling system overall. I dont believe this is the problem because the radiator is rated for 750+ hp and the fans are moving a ton of air. (3630 CFM plus whatever the 12" is pushing).

I feel I need to dyno and tune the engine so i can eliminate one suspicion but speaking to a dyno guy in my area, he feels it will not solve the problem and believes its more mechanical.

Im stumped..... Need help....Dyno? or No Dyno? Cooling System Problem or timing problem ?

If anyone is running this system, your advice or at least a known good shop in the northern california bay area that can help is greatly appreciated. Hehehe. (Slowly giving up on figuring it out myself.) :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...

you should have the fans pulling not pushing i would think..on the side of the radiator that the motor is close to...also do you have a shroud around the fans????? that works wonders on cooling...cause the air flow has to pass through and not go around or over,under the radiator...
 
The hood is actually functioning but it is not sealed. If you looked at my pictures, i replaced the electric wp with a mechanical one. Just fighting for space. thinking of going mechanical clutch fan with a shroud. hopefully that will do it.
 
ice1 dart said:
The hood is actually functioning but it is not sealed. If you looked at my pictures, i replaced the electric wp with a mechanical one. Just fighting for space. thinking of going mechanical clutch fan with a shroud. hopefully that will do it.
Click to expand...

I did this with my build and my cooling problems are now solved. I used the fan clutch that's made for a jaguar (forgot the part number but it's been talked about on FABO a couple of times). Clearance is very tight with a big block, maybe a quarter of an inch at best. Had to build a custom fiberglass shroud for my champion radiator. It can be done with simple hand tools, careful measuring, and a little bit of patience. Its important to also make sure that the fan only goes about half way into the shroud, i.e. you want half of the fan sticking out the back of the shroud, and that there is no more than 1" of clearance between the tips of the fan blades and the shroud. When set up correcly the fan, clutch, shroud, and hood seals work perfectly together. My fan clutch is thermostatically controlled to spin at something like 60% of the pulley speed below 200 degrees and spin at 90% of pulley speed when the temperature gets higher. It rarely ever kicks in but when it does the temp drops within about 30 seconds. It's nice to know that my system has that extra bit of cooling capacity when needed.

Good luck and keep us posted with any updates!
 
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