t-56 swap details help

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dustbull

dustbull

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Hey everyone i have a quick question for anyone who has any knowledge about t-56's. I think i'm slowly losing the 2nd gear synchro in the O.D. A-833 in the duster

since the car was originally a /6 auto, it has a hydraulic throw out bearing in it now, and i dont care about how much of the floor or crossmember i will have to cut..but i looked at a few places and cannot find out the bore/stroke needed for the master cylinder to work with the stock t-56 slave cylinder, does anybody know it?

I also need to look into the clutch for this swap. The scatter shield for this swap allows for a clutch no larger than 10.5" so that should mean that i can keep the flywheel i'm currently running. I believe i have a 10.4" clutch rite now. Is it possible to keep the pressure plate and just purchase a 10.4" clutch disc that has the 1.125" 26 spline input on it?

Finally i am planning on purchasing a damaged t56 for under $500 and rebuilding it myself. Would you recommend i go with the stage II kit or would stage I be acceptable for my application (small block 408, maybe a low boost turbo one day, but always will be a street car)?

The way i see it, it should cost me about $800 more to get the t56 than just rebuilding the 833 but to me it is justified by the better gear ratio's, durability, and the two extra gears that come along with it..plus then ill have an excuse to put that badass viper logo somewhere on the car...Thanks for any help towards clearing this up!
 
Hey everyone. It's been a few months since I posted this thread. I don't know why I was asking some of those questions here, but anyways I got some answers if anyones interested. First off, if you have any t56 questions look at ls1tech, theres a ton of knowledge over there.

About a month ago i picked up a broken ls t56 for around $500 with shipping. The input shaft had all of it's gear teeth sheared off. Luckally someone hooked me up with a used viper input shaft and mid plate, as well as a good deal on new bearings, cluster get etc.. I still need to finish dis-assembling it to know exactly what needs replacing for the synchros but I'd say I'm over halfway done.

I called centerforce since I'm running a dual force 10.4" rite now. They gave me a part number for a 26 spline input that will work with my pressure plate. Quicktime sells either a viper or gm style t56 to small/big block mopars. All i need after that up front is a viper trhow out bearing. Since my trans is still a gm out back I need to buy a new output shaft from a th350 and get my driveshaft shortened. All in all not too bad so far, I guess as I go I'll make a bit of a write-up of my own to help Anyone whose thinking of doing the same.
 
did you figure out what you are going to run for a clutch master cylinder? im doing the viper t56 behind a 400 in my duster. i have everything but the master havent decided what im going to use, hopefully soon ill start the conversion.
 
As i understand it the viper and LS clutch master cylinders are "interchangable" (they deliver the same volume of fluid). I know they are 3/4" bore, but i cant find anywhere either the stroke or required fluid volume for the throw out bearing to correctly function. Rite now i have a wilwood master cylinder with a 3/4" bore; im running a mcleod hydraulic throw out bearing on my A-833. It was pretty easy to fab up a bracket on the firewall and pedal. Since all that retrofitting is already done, im going to try and keep the master cylinder..
 
I thought someone might enjoy an update to this project...and the carnage that was inside. I have the transmission completely apart. All the synchros checked out to be reusable, so my final parts list is: bearing kit, shim kit, snap ring kit, new cluster gear, used input shaft, new 2nd gear. I'll be putting it back together in about three weeks when i go home for spring break. I called Centerforce, and was told to use LM384161 with my dual force pressure plate that i have on the car rite now. Ill post updates as they come. The big updates will be closer to summer; when i cut up the floor to fit the transmission I'm going to redo my sub-frame connectors, add a driveshaft loop, and add the 5th pt (door bar) to my roll cage. Thanks for looking!
You think i can reuse this haha
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New vs Old
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Heres what it all boils down to: lots of bags
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Just a quick update, finishing up the assembly of the t56, I shimmed the mainshaft and countershaft, both with 0.001 preload. Im going to a salvage yard in th next few days to get a shifter for it...over the next month ill be ordering parts, and in may i will be installing it with lots of pics of what needs to be cut for the swap...
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Thanks for posting this. My head is spinning on what trans to convert to. I have a automatic now and want to do a complete switch to manual and I am leaning towards a T56.

Good job on rebuilding the unit! I have done a few and it is a pain in the a$$ sometimes to get the holes to line up with the guide bolts in the case!

I was thinking of just ordering a complete clutch master, slave and line from a 2002 camaro or trans am. Any thoughts on this?
 
That would sound like the easiest/cheapest way of getting all the parts for this swap. As long as your comfortable mounting the camaro clutch master on the firewall at it's proper angle and alignment to the pedal.

As far as updates: nothing really to speak of. The bleeder line to my McLeod throwout bearing chaffed against the frame and ruptured two days ago. I have it 'fixed' so that I can hopefully limp around on it until finals are over. Since I would have to take the trans out to replace the line, I'm just going to swap transmissions a bit earlier than anticipated. My last exam is may 4th, so if all goes well I'll be home that evening starting to swap everything. I'll post the project here when I get going...
 
i have my big block and t56 in and running, but its not mobile yet. i still have to figure out the master cylinder. i just finished the trans tunnel crossmember and trans mount.
 
Heres the best picture i could find for what i did for a master cylinder: Its a Wilwood 3/4" bore, 1.10" stroke for my 4spd. If your running an LS style throwout bearing this would work fine. Im going to have to jump up to Wilwoods 7/8" bore since the viper throwout needs more fluid volume to actuate it.
mastercylinder2.jpg

A bit of fabricating for the mount to the firewall, but It connects straight to the stock spot on the pedal for the linkage, i even welded a section of the stock linkage to an adjuster nut that screws to the master...
 
its a red X for me. id liek to see how you mounted it. i was going to try to mount it like the kiesler setup but im thinking im just going to mount it next to the brak mc. im using a viper to bearing, it looks like the factory viper used 7/8 bore but ive seen guys that have used 3/4 maybe the pedals provide a longer stroke than a viper? i first went with the huge wilwood mc but wound up getting the tiny one with the cast reservior. well see.
 
Hmm it's showing up for me, but I'll take some pics in a bit. You need to modify a 3/4" bore mc to get 1.5" of travel to work with the viper slave.
 
ok now i see it. the mc i got has 1.4" of travel. the biggest they make that one in is 3/4. i just have to make sure i get full travel where i mount it. im going to at least try it they all seem to have the same mounting pattern if i have to swap it out for something different.
 
Hey everyone, Its almost time to take the duster home and start cutting it up. I guess to add to this thread, and hopefully cut down on someones headaches and research time, a list of everything that should be needed convert from the A-833 to the t56 far with prices is below. Swapping form an auto to a T56 should only additionally need a flywheel, clutch, and pedal assembly. Hopefully this will help someone whose thinking of doing the swap or wanting to compare this route to TKO/Keisler or similar packages. ..

Viper CSC from Dorman CS360050 on Ebay (don't know its quality, but comes w/ 1yr warranty)-$104

QuickTime Scatter Shield (QTI-RM-8074) -$570

Russell quick disconnect-to-AN adapter (RUS-641001) -$21

Auto-Meter Ultralite electronic gauge ( ATM-4488 ) -$209

T56 sensor wires from Ebay (speedo, rev lockout, rev lights) -$27

Strange GM T56 yoke 1310 u-joints (STR-U1661) -$56

26 spline clutch disk (CTF-LM384161)-$156

Wilwood 7/8" bore master cylinder (WIL-260-3376) -$66

TOTAL:$1209

Add in the transmission which can go anywhere from $500-$2500 depending on condition and/or type. I don't know how much resizing the driveshaft will be but it will be done locally.

Ill post updates with lots of pictures of everything as it gets done...
 
cool im wiating on my line and adapter to come to see if the mc i have will work or not. otherwise its all done, the trans swap anyway. i went from a slant and 904 to 400 and viper t56. i still have to build an exhuast or modify an old one i have.
 
Cool, hopefully that stuff will get to you soon. I've read that the 3/4 bore and 1.4ish stroke will work. I also believe that the viper throw out has a LOT of extension, you may not even need all of the master cylinder travel depending on your clutch brand. Good luck, lemme know how it works out for you.
 
A T5 huh? I hope you have Triple A and a shovel in the trunk.
 
Ah ok. I missed the "6" somehow.
 
Hey everyone, I got a bit of cutting done before i had to go back to school and work...I am also removing my heater core/fan during this conversion; welding up the firewall only took a few hours though. I cut up the floor based on other peoples pictures and descriptions. My next trip will be when a lot of work will get done; by then all of the parts should have come. Btw, I plan up using 1"X2" steel tubing to replace the crossmember and transmission mount.
Before:
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After:
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Transmission ready to go with stock camaro shifter:
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that shifter seems much farther back than the viper trans. i got to drive mine saturday. i have some carb issues to figure out and some other stuff but the trans worked out well. the 3/4 bore mc seems to be fine with full travel.
 
Yea, i never noticed it before, it does look like the GM unit is a good 6" or so back compared to the viper trans...ill have to figure out how to make that work with the shifter when i get it in. On the other hand, im pretty tall (6'5") and have my seats mounted a few inches back, so this may not end up being an issue for me after all. Whenever the transmission dies i plan on switching to a viper mainshaft and tailshaft housing, or just a new viper trans, whichevers cheaper...

Its good to hear everythings working out for you; sounds like those few issues can be fixed relatively easily-good luck!
 
Well, after tearing the A-833 out yesterday and aligning the scatter shield, I got the t56 into the car today! heres a few pictures of the progress so for. Im going back out to the shop tonight to get as much done as i can before i have to leave again.

From this picture here you can see that the drivers side will be gaining quite a bit of room. That gap is just from the stock 4speed hump. I had over estimated how much to cut out of the passanger side, but not too bad.
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i used 2 tanks of gas so far with my setup no idea on miles but im having some carb issues and my clutch is slipping pretty bad.
 
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