The EFI myth

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My car has points- I don't carry anything extra.
I still have my points distrib outta my 273. Ran the 340 with that for over a decade. I keep an extra New Usa Blue Ecu, coil, and ballast in the Duster... may toss the points unit in the trunk too. Except I can't even afford to drive my car. FjB
 
If your engine has cast iron exhaust manifolds and a functioning heat riser valve, setting up the choke system is a matter of understanding how it works. [Assuming the intake manifold exhaust passage isn't plugged with carbon.] The choke pull-off must be adjusted properly [there are specs for this]. The high idle cam must be free. High idle cam screw for cold start RPM. The choke linkage must be clean and oiled to prevent corrosion. Use ATF or thin oil. It may take a few tries before you get it just right.
 
As usual what parts you use will be dictated by your application.

Carbs are no different to EFI from a learning perspective - your STILL have to learn how to dial either system in depending on what it is you're using. This is the caveat - many are not willing to take the time to learn HOW to dial in either of these induction systems.

Both systems have their pros and cons but either one will require learning if you're the one doing the tuning. The scope of what you can do with REAL EFI /ECUs is great like cyl to cyl tuning, timing control, fan control, nitrous control, traction control, etc but I don't need any of that atm so what I have works really well. As someone mentioned, simplicity is a big one for me right now, complexity and troubleshooting/EMI can really suck on aftermarket EFI. In addition EFI normally won't make more HP/TQ than well dialled in carbs, so its a lot of $$$ to spend on a system unless you really need the above features.

If I can get a 1200 Dominator and a pair of Eddy 800s to start easily, idle super clean, transition nice, cruise in the high 14s and WOT in the mid 12s....anyone can. This is with a [email protected], .750 lift solid roller with single plane intakes.

Patience to learn what your engine likes is the key. Either way a single or dual wideband is your friend here.

For my deal, trans wise is where the biggest change in making the car way more usable would come from for me. I'd love to swap to a 8HP90 and run 3.23 or 3.00 gears with a 30" rear tire. Or even a built NAG1. Using the software conversion and the Hellcat/OEM shifter....I can rip thru the gears and have double overdrive on the highway. Best of both worlds.

I'd love to that way before EFI ;) ......
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I agree. I purchased a FAST EFI for a factory five cobra back in 2009. FAST advertised it to be plug and play and self learning. That system couldn't learn to tie it's own shoes and tech support was zero help.
 
#1 reason for EFI: Today's gas sucks and nearly boils at room temperatures.
I have carb'd and injected vehicles. All my carbs suck, regardless of ethanol or not. After being parked hot, fuel boils away - even with an electric pump to refill the carb, the excess fuel in the engine causes long cranks and hard starts.

Possible fix: carb spacer. Either plastic or wood. If no room for that, the thickest foam or cork gasket you can find. And a heat shield. And if you're not running one, consider a ThermoQuad.

Letting a carb'd engine sit, or being stored for any length of time also always causes issues for me. Either with plugged passages, or failed parts/gaskets/seals. I've spent more in replacement carburetors and parts in the past 5 years than I have on oxygen sensors (none of my other sensors have ever failed). I have an offroad motorcycle that every season, regardless of how it's stored, needs the carburetor removed (no small feat!), cleaned, roto-rooted, and re-assembled. Even then it takes 20-30 mins of idling before it'll take throttle. Once it runs, it's great, most of the small running issues self-correct, but it can take several hours of running for fresh fuel to wash away the gunk of the fuel that's evaporated or corroded something. I still don't know how far a tank of fuel will take me on that bike, because I wind up spilling enough with every carb removal that I'm sure it has an impact. As a result, it doesn't get ridden near as much as it should.

Do you use Sta-Bil?


Failed accelerator pumps and corrosion debris causing issues is a seasonal occurrence for me. It sucks! I hate smelling like fuel, and yet every one of my carb'd engines (and I have no less than a dozen on my property) requires some level of dismantling and poking about in order to make them run if they've sat more than a few days or a week. Doesn't even matter if I drain them first - without fuel present, condensation will cause corrosion issues and I'm still left smelling like gas after scrubbing and poking.

I have found draining is probably a bad idea. The contrary-FILL the tank with gas treated with Sta-Bil or StarTron.

Just this weekend I had to fire up a carbureted mower at another property of ours. Been sitting with the fuel valve closed for 4 months - carb was run dry after the last use. Very little fuel in the tank, left in a conditioned space. Filled the tank with fresh gas, opened the valve and let the bowl refill. Took 1/2 an hour to get it started and running. My back and shoulder are wrecked from all the pulling. This mower has maybe 12 hrs on it - not even to it's first oil change. When used once a week, it starts on the first pull every time. But more than that, and the chance of success shrinks exponentially. I expect it will need a new carb by next year. Same with both of my 4 stroke weed-wackers this season. Serviced and stored dry for the winter. This spring, I spent hours getting them started and de-gunked.

Definitely need different storage techniques. As I said: tanks FULL and treated. Worked for me for years. My elderly mower fired up the first time every spring.
 
As usual what parts you use will be dictated by your application.

Carbs are no different to EFI from a learning perspective - your STILL have to learn how to dial either system in depending on what it is you're using. This is the caveat - many are not willing to take the time to learn HOW to dial in either of these induction systems.

Both systems have their pros and cons but either one will require learning if you're the one doing the tuning. The scope of what you can do with REAL EFI /ECUs is great like cyl to cyl tuning, timing control, fan control, nitrous control, traction control, etc but I don't need any of that atm so what I have works really well. As someone mentioned, simplicity is a big one for me right now, complexity and troubleshooting/EMI can really suck on aftermarket EFI. In addition EFI normally won't make more HP/TQ than well dialled in carbs, so its a lot of $$$ to spend on a system unless you really need the above features.

If I can get a 1200 Dominator and a pair of Eddy 800s to start easily, idle super clean, transition nice, cruise in the high 14s and WOT in the mid 12s....anyone can. This is with a [email protected], .750 lift solid roller with single plane intakes.

Patience to learn what your engine likes is the key. Either way a single or dual wideband is your friend here.

For my deal, trans wise is where the biggest change in making the car way more usable would come from for me. I'd love to swap to a 8HP90 and run 3.23 or 3.00 gears with a 30" rear tire. Or even a built NAG1. Using the software conversion and the Hellcat/OEM shifter....I can rip thru the gears and have double overdrive on the highway. Best of both worlds.

I'd love to that way before EFI ;) ......View attachment 1715965449

FWIW, a guy who has been wrenching and tuning Mopars for almost sixty years, and actually pioneered several now-common upgrades, called swapping from a carb to MPI "the single best thing he ever did" on a car.
 
Possible fix: carb spacer. Either plastic or wood. If no room for that, the thickest foam or cork gasket you can find. And a heat shield. And if you're not running one, consider a ThermoQuad.

With and without, no change. Tried phenolic, wood, plastic, cutting boards, aluminum, you name it. Tried every type of heat shield, wrapped the lines (fiberglass socks, alum foil, combinations of both, heat-wrap, changed fuel line locations, etc). No changes. The carb simply got too hot.
I'm dealing with the same exact situation now on a second vehicle. If it's hotter than 90F outside, I get into vapor locking, boiling and percolating bowls, etc. Fuel is delivered by an electric pump, fuel line is completely isolated from engine and isn't near any heat sources. I've lowered the floats, tuned the timing and mixture for coolest operation (stays at 180-190F with a 194 thermostat, only gets to thermostat temp if I climb a decent grade, never gets hotter than 200F). Carbs are on spacers (but I have a significant hood clearance challenge, so they're only .250 thick). It's also got three electric fans. If I let them run after shutdown, I can avoid percolation about 60% of the time. Nothing else has had any appreciable effect. I'm about to try a 160F thermostat to try and keep the intake cooler to prevent heat soak into the carbs. I can shut the engine off, disconnect the fuel, and wait 5-10 minutes and watch the fuel boil and then fire out of the boosters (it's worse if I leave it connected, but disconnecting rules out the line as the cause), then listen to it whistle and spit for a few minutes before the entire garage smells like gas. It's awesome.
So far, the experience with this new engine has been the same as what I had with the dart. Except the new engine has holley carbs (2x4) vs the single edel carb on the 318. The edel made it easier to see the boiling fuel - I could take the top off and watch it.
When it was cooler weather and more humid, it didn't seem to be as bad. But now that it's hot and dry, it's a challenge.

Do you use Sta-Bil?

Doesn't seem to make a difference with my stuff. Typically it's the needle and seat that get gummy. Best solution I've found is to fill things up a few days before use and let them soak, then run them hard and hot for as long as possible during first use. I've tried seafoam, sta-bil, and a half dozen other things over the years. It helps with the gas in the can, especially if it's not totally full. Mostly seems to help keep water out. Some of the 'stabilizers' turned to glue if the surrounding fuel evaporated - that really sucked.

I have found draining is probably a bad idea. The contrary-FILL the tank with gas treated with Sta-Bil or StarTron.

I used to do it that way. Works with dry air, but not now where it gets humid. 90% of my issues are caused or made worse by humidity. If left completely full, I come back 5-9 months later to lots of varnish and about half the fuel I had put in. If it's only for a week or so, and it's not 100+ degrees, then full is better but not perfect. Still lots of popping and farting and not wanting to take throttle until the fuel washes things out a bit. Sometimes that's a few minutes, sometimes it's hours.

Definitely need different storage techniques. As I said: tanks FULL and treated. Worked for me for years. My elderly mower fired up the first time every spring.

I'll start a go-fund-me for a heated shop ;)

I agree that different conditions would help, but I'm not moving back to the desert and heating my shop won't be an option for quite some time. The stuff at the second property won't ever sit in conditioned space, and the humidity there is far worse (plus it's near a salt water coast!).
 
With and without, no change. Tried phenolic, wood, plastic, cutting boards, aluminum, you name it. Tried every type of heat shield, wrapped the lines (fiberglass socks, alum foil, combinations of both, heat-wrap, changed fuel line locations, etc). No changes. The carb simply got too hot.
I'm dealing with the same exact situation now on a second vehicle. If it's hotter than 90F outside, I get into vapor locking, boiling and percolating bowls, etc. Fuel is delivered by an electric pump, fuel line is completely isolated from engine and isn't near any heat sources. I've lowered the floats, tuned the timing and mixture for coolest operation (stays at 180-190F with a 194 thermostat, only gets to thermostat temp if I climb a decent grade, never gets hotter than 200F). Carbs are on spacers (but I have a significant hood clearance challenge, so they're only .250 thick). It's also got three electric fans. If I let them run after shutdown, I can avoid percolation about 60% of the time. Nothing else has had any appreciable effect. I'm about to try a 160F thermostat to try and keep the intake cooler to prevent heat soak into the carbs. I can shut the engine off, disconnect the fuel, and wait 5-10 minutes and watch the fuel boil and then fire out of the boosters (it's worse if I leave it connected, but disconnecting rules out the line as the cause), then listen to it whistle and spit for a few minutes before the entire garage smells like gas. It's awesome.
So far, the experience with this new engine has been the same as what I had with the dart. Except the new engine has holley carbs (2x4) vs the single edel carb on the 318. The edel made it easier to see the boiling fuel - I could take the top off and watch it.
When it was cooler weather and more humid, it didn't seem to be as bad. But now that it's hot and dry, it's a challenge.

What are you running now? Because this seems like exactly the thing a ThermoQuad was designed to prevent.

Also: what altitude are you at? High altitude makes all that worse.

Doesn't seem to make a difference with my stuff. Typically it's the needle and seat that get gummy. Best solution I've found is to fill things up a few days before use and let them soak, then run them hard and hot for as long as possible during first use. I've tried seafoam, sta-bil, and a half dozen other things over the years. It helps with the gas in the can, especially if it's not totally full. Mostly seems to help keep water out. Some of the 'stabilizers' turned to glue if the surrounding fuel evaporated - that really sucked.

I have had good luck on carbs (motorcycles) using StarTron and StaBil for ethanol.

I used to do it that way. Works with dry air, but not now where it gets humid. 90% of my issues are caused or made worse by humidity. If left completely full, I come back 5-9 months later to lots of varnish and about half the fuel I had put in. If it's only for a week or so, and it's not 100+ degrees, then full is better but not perfect. Still lots of popping and farting and not wanting to take throttle until the fuel washes things out a bit. Sometimes that's a few minutes, sometimes it's hours.

Something is very wrong, because it gets REALLY humid here about 9 months of the year. I thought most of Idaho was high desert!


I agree that different conditions would help, but I'm not moving back to the desert and heating my shop won't be an option for quite some time. The stuff at the second property won't ever sit in conditioned space, and the humidity there is far worse (plus it's near a salt water coast!).

I'm in New England (humid) and had no heated storage.
 
What are you running now? Because this seems like exactly the thing a ThermoQuad was designed to prevent.
My 408 now has FItech. My FE390 has 2 Holley 450 VS carbs. A thermoquad will not fit the 2x4 intake I have on the engine now, and for what FE parts cost I'm not swapping it anytime soon LOL. I'm going to focus on getting operating temps down to help lower the peak heat soak temps after shutdown. I may add a return-line style fuel filter to help clear the vapor from the fuel lines when hot. If I'm at or above 40mph, it doesn't seem to be an issue. But in-town traffic and lots of stop and go on hot days (we just got through a few days of 100-105F temps) seems to become a challenge. I only noticed yesterday that my fuel filter was empty at idle and it started to give me a bog when accelerating too, so it's something I need to dig into. I didn't build this engine, and I've only got about 1500 miles on it myself so I'm finding all the quirks.

Also: what altitude are you at? High altitude makes all that worse.
2200ft in ID, 2k ft when I was in Vegas (I swapped to the FItech on my 318 while I was in Vegas). Might have something to do with it. I grew up at 4500' ft elevation so 2k doesn't seem high to me, is it? I hadn't considered elevation really, and it may be a bigger contributor than I'd considered. The second property is at sea-level, but that place deals with salt air and constant humidity (western WA state), plus lots of government mandated dumbness when it comes to ECO stuff, so who knows what they put (or don't) in the gas over there. Lately, I've been bringing my own fuel with me from ID, and issues do seem lessened to some extent (I've typically had to tear the small-engine carbs apart to get them working again - now I just have to deal with letting them soak in new fuel).

I have had good luck on carbs (motorcycles) using StarTron and StaBil for ethanol.
Never had any issues with my old kawasaki (the only trouble-free carb'd engine I've ever had), but my KTM seems indifferent to any additives and the carbs give me fits every spring, or after about a month of storage (I have too many vehicles, and I rotate depending on weather, so some might sit for a month in the summer). The KTM guys swear by seafoam, but that stuff has caused my more grief than it's ever helped. Just my experience.

Something is very wrong, because it gets REALLY humid here about 9 months of the year. I thought most of Idaho was high desert!
I'm in New England (humid) and had no heated storage.

I think the bigger difference is that it swings wildly here, constantly. Even in the winter, it'll go from the teens to the high 70% range and back again within days/week, and several times throughout the spring thaw. Then again during thunderstorm season. This year was the absolute worst I've experienced when it came to swinging back and forth, and it was obvious when I had to go through and get everything running again. Every metal item in my barn sweated and rusted horribly, which I've never had to consider in the past. I've not lived much in places that get above 30% unless it's actively storming, so it's been quite the learning curve. Maybe I'm blaming the wrong thing, but it seems like a reasonable variable to me.
 
My 408 now has FItech. My FE390 has 2 Holley 450 VS carbs. A thermoquad will not fit the 2x4 intake I have on the engine now, and for what FE parts cost I'm not swapping it anytime soon LOL. I'm going to focus on getting operating temps down to help lower the peak heat soak temps after shutdown. I may add a return-line style fuel filter to help clear the vapor from the fuel lines when hot. If I'm at or above 40mph, it doesn't seem to be an issue. But in-town traffic and lots of stop and go on hot days (we just got through a few days of 100-105F temps) seems to become a challenge. I only noticed yesterday that my fuel filter was empty at idle and it started to give me a bog when accelerating too, so it's something I need to dig into. I didn't build this engine, and I've only got about 1500 miles on it myself so I'm finding all the quirks.


2200ft in ID, 2k ft when I was in Vegas (I swapped to the FItech on my 318 while I was in Vegas). Might have something to do with it. I grew up at 4500' ft elevation so 2k doesn't seem high to me, is it? I hadn't considered elevation really, and it may be a bigger contributor than I'd considered. The second property is at sea-level, but that place deals with salt air and constant humidity (western WA state), plus lots of government mandated dumbness when it comes to ECO stuff, so who knows what they put (or don't) in the gas over there. Lately, I've been bringing my own fuel with me from ID, and issues do seem lessened to some extent (I've typically had to tear the small-engine carbs apart to get them working again - now I just have to deal with letting them soak in new fuel).


Never had any issues with my old kawasaki (the only trouble-free carb'd engine I've ever had), but my KTM seems indifferent to any additives and the carbs give me fits every spring, or after about a month of storage (I have too many vehicles, and I rotate depending on weather, so some might sit for a month in the summer). The KTM guys swear by seafoam, but that stuff has caused my more grief than it's ever helped. Just my experience.



I think the bigger difference is that it swings wildly here, constantly. Even in the winter, it'll go from the teens to the high 70% range and back again within days/week, and several times throughout the spring thaw. Then again during thunderstorm season. This year was the absolute worst I've experienced when it came to swinging back and forth, and it was obvious when I had to go through and get everything running again. Every metal item in my barn sweated and rusted horribly, which I've never had to consider in the past. I've not lived much in places that get above 30% unless it's actively storming, so it's been quite the learning curve. Maybe I'm blaming the wrong thing, but it seems like a reasonable variable to me.

Look up Thunderhead289 on YouTube, he's a super smart carb wizard with an engineering background and he has some excellent tips and mods to keep carb'd vehicles running reliably and trouble-free on modern gas (he did the lawnmower carb on a 302 experiment). One of the big ones involves employing a fuel return system and regulator so that the fuel pressure and temperature at the inlet to the carb stays consistent. With all your issues I think having the fuel supply dead-headed at the carb is the main cause.

Something I do on my Duster and D200 pickup (both carb'd) in warmer weather, once I park somewhere after the engine gets to operating temp I open the hood about 1/4-1/3 of the way to let the hot air escape from the engine bay. That alone can make the difference between firing off after 2-3 revolutions and sitting there cranking for 5 seconds with it running like garbage for a minute or 2 until fresh cool gas fills up the carb bowls. Might look silly and people will surely ask "hey is your car ok?" but it works.

Another point to consider, ethanol absorbs water from the ambient air and that gets worse with temperature swings. It also evaporates very quickly and if ethanol-gas is left unsealed it goes "stale" very fast. When it goes stale and has water in it is when bad things happen with corrosion of fuel system parts. I've never had an issue with any of my engines getting fuel system corrosion with E10 pump gas because I don't let more than 2 weeks go by between running/driving them. I also use Lucas Ethanol Fuel Treatment in my vehicles or equipment where I know it might go a month or 2 between fillups, not only is it a stabilizer but it also slightly reduces the volatility of the fuel and the potential to evaporate or percolate.
 
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With all your issues I think having the fuel supply dead-headed at the carb is the main cause.

This is likely the case with my current engine challenge. Once I have time to turn some wrenches (currently doing two remodels, 1/4 acre market-garden, plus a full-time job) I plan to attempt a return style system. My only hesitation has been that since the fuel is boiling in the bowls, I may still have some issues after shutdown.
I'm not totally familiar with FE engines, and learning more as I go, and it seems they were designed to run at lower temps - so the cooler stat may help. Since I'm inherently lazy, and don't have a lift, that's probably where I'll start. It hasn't caused me any major issues yet, so I've just lived with it for now (plus, it wasn't apparent until a few weeks ago when temps spiked, and we're due for cooler weather again now).

Despite my challenges with this engine, I wouldn't call the EFI on my dart more 'reliable'. It's less hassle, and making changes as conditions vary is much simpler though. But that's only because I've worked past the teething pains of the initial install. I would love to put EFI on this new motor, but with the current heads it's very difficult to keep header gaskets intact, which would wreak havoc with an O2 sensor. Something I've found EFI cannot tolerate.

once I park somewhere after the engine gets to operating temp I open the hood about 1/4-1/3 of the way to let the hot air escape

I do this frequently - open the hood. It does help, and I agree it helps prevent that crank-crank-crank-I-hope-it-starts situation.
 
Yep, I always tell people the most modern thing on my car is a electric choke. Ended up taking it off anyways I just have my primary run fat, turn key and go.
 
A guy asked why I had that hole in my hood and that scoop, it was NO race car and I was no racer.
I said, IF its 105 here in Tx. I want to drive my car if I want, that hole lets out a lot of hot air and the scoop lets a little in. Maybe why my sorry gas ain't boiling??? Dunno. I ain't no engineer!
 
A guy asked why I had that hole in my hood and that scoop, it was NO race car and I was no racer.
I said, IF its 105 here in Tx. I want to drive my car if I want, that hole lets out a lot of hot air and the scoop lets a little in. Maybe why my sorry gas ain't boiling??? Dunno. I ain't no engineer!

My gas boiler also has a hood scoop, and side vents - they're not huge though. Maybe the scoop just needs to be bigger? :D
upload_2022-8-4_13-23-11.png
 
This is likely the case with my current engine challenge. Once I have time to turn some wrenches (currently doing two remodels, 1/4 acre market-garden, plus a full-time job) I plan to attempt a return style system. My only hesitation has been that since the fuel is boiling in the bowls, I may still have some issues after shutdown.
I'm not totally familiar with FE engines, and learning more as I go, and it seems they were designed to run at lower temps - so the cooler stat may help. Since I'm inherently lazy, and don't have a lift, that's probably where I'll start. It hasn't caused me any major issues yet, so I've just lived with it for now (plus, it wasn't apparent until a few weeks ago when temps spiked, and we're due for cooler weather again now).

Despite my challenges with this engine, I wouldn't call the EFI on my dart more 'reliable'. It's less hassle, and making changes as conditions vary is much simpler though. But that's only because I've worked past the teething pains of the initial install. I would love to put EFI on this new motor, but with the current heads it's very difficult to keep header gaskets intact, which would wreak havoc with an O2 sensor. Something I've found EFI cannot tolerate.



I do this frequently - open the hood. It does help, and I agree it helps prevent that crank-crank-crank-I-hope-it-starts situation.

Just a hunch but I feel like that wacky intake manifold design where it partially goes over the decks absorbs a lot more heat conducting up from the block. Yeah you might still have a bit of hard starting with the fuel boiling in the bowls but with an electric pump and return-type system as soon as the needles and seats open up the fuel flowing in will be a lot cooler. You might be on to something with the "designed to run at lower temps," FE's were gone for the most part by the time emissions became a big deal except in trucks. And trucks have much bigger and more open engine bays so heat soaking isn't quite as bad as in cars.

Our big blocks were designed in the 1950s but the engineers had the foresight (or just got lucky lol) to have the intake manifold only touching the intake flange on the heads and nothing else. Block the heat crossover, boom you got an "air-gap" intake manifold.
 
It pains me, it does.

I had a new Ford F100 1968 it was. With about 5000 mi. a con rod BROKE, just tooling down the blacktop.
But a guy there in town bought a new 66 Belvedere with a hemi. He blew the whole engine the first week. OK so he was not just "tooling" down the blacktop!:lol:
 
With and without, no change. Tried phenolic, wood, plastic, cutting boards, aluminum, you name it. Tried every type of heat shield, wrapped the lines (fiberglass socks, alum foil, combinations of both, heat-wrap, changed fuel line locations, etc). No changes. The carb simply got too hot.
I'm dealing with the same exact situation now on a second vehicle. If it's hotter than 90F outside, I get into vapor locking, boiling and percolating bowls, etc. Fuel is delivered by an electric pump, fuel line is completely isolated from engine and isn't near any heat sources. I've lowered the floats, tuned the timing and mixture for coolest operation (stays at 180-190F with a 194 thermostat, only gets to thermostat temp if I climb a decent grade, never gets hotter than 200F). Carbs are on spacers (but I have a significant hood clearance challenge, so they're only .250 thick). It's also got three electric fans. If I let them run after shutdown, I can avoid percolation about 60% of the time. Nothing else has had any appreciable effect. I'm about to try a 160F thermostat to try and keep the intake cooler to prevent heat soak into the carbs. I can shut the engine off, disconnect the fuel, and wait 5-10 minutes and watch the fuel boil and then fire out of the boosters (it's worse if I leave it connected, but disconnecting rules out the line as the cause), then listen to it whistle and spit for a few minutes before the entire garage smells like gas. It's awesome.
So far, the experience with this new engine has been the same as what I had with the dart. Except the new engine has holley carbs (2x4) vs the single edel carb on the 318. The edel made it easier to see the boiling fuel - I could take the top off and watch it.
When it was cooler weather and more humid, it didn't seem to be as bad. But now that it's hot and dry, it's a challenge.



Doesn't seem to make a difference with my stuff. Typically it's the needle and seat that get gummy. Best solution I've found is to fill things up a few days before use and let them soak, then run them hard and hot for as long as possible during first use. I've tried seafoam, sta-bil, and a half dozen other things over the years. It helps with the gas in the can, especially if it's not totally full. Mostly seems to help keep water out. Some of the 'stabilizers' turned to glue if the surrounding fuel evaporated - that really sucked.



I used to do it that way. Works with dry air, but not now where it gets humid. 90% of my issues are caused or made worse by humidity. If left completely full, I come back 5-9 months later to lots of varnish and about half the fuel I had put in. If it's only for a week or so, and it's not 100+ degrees, then full is better but not perfect. Still lots of popping and farting and not wanting to take throttle until the fuel washes things out a bit. Sometimes that's a few minutes, sometimes it's hours.



I'll start a go-fund-me for a heated shop ;)

I agree that different conditions would help, but I'm not moving back to the desert and heating my shop won't be an option for quite some time. The stuff at the second property won't ever sit in conditioned space, and the humidity there is far worse (plus it's near a salt water coast!).
I live in Tampa, it gets Hotter than heck and humid too boot. Never had that problem
 
My first observation is on the ethanol fuel and its effects. I've replaced the fuel pump in our '95 Jeep GC 3 times. The last time I spent a little more on an E-85 compatible version and have had no issues since. I also had to replace the TPS a few years ago. Other than that, it has 230k miles on it. I had to replace the tranny (swapped in a 5-speed manual) when the automatic crapped, but the EFI system has been reasonably reliable.

With what I know about EFI retrofits, the OEMs (like Holley & FITech) try to make their systems as dummy proof as possible, realizing most installers will not take the time to learn how to properly install and tune them. Hobbyists like that! However, when you look at the greatest success stories concerning EFI conversions, the tech took the time to learn everything he could about EFI, conversions, tuning, EMI, and so forth. This is a rather steep learning curve most folks shy away from. Carbs are more "idiot proof" than retrofit EFI systems. Even if you get it wrong, it probably runs.

My landlord asked me to get his quad running for him. It would not idle, and futzing with the throttle couldn't get any reasonable power. First, the magneto practically fell apart in my hands. I rebuilt it with Taylor solid core 8mm wire. Next I pulled the carb. The floats were frozen wherever they were last fall when he parked it. Rebuilt the SU carb.

My added punch line is that very few hobbyists will take the time to learn how to properly set up a carb or distributor. Nevertheless, the car runs acceptably. When retrofitting EFI and they don't take the time to learn how to make it work, it simply doesn't. Therefore, carbs & distributors with mechanical/vacuum advance is favored by those that want simple. EFI seems to be favored by those obsessed with learning everything they can about the project at hand. (The MegaSquirt program is a good source of information for those that consider themselves obsessed wanting to learn everything about EFI.)
 
FWIW, a guy who has been wrenching and tuning Mopars for almost sixty years, and actually pioneered several now-common upgrades, called swapping from a carb to MPI "the single best thing he ever did" on a car.

Sure, that's cool and that's great, for his application. I don't know his combination, car/use, engine specs, compression, locality / ambient temps, cam specs, fuel quality, daily driver status (?) or any of the other important variables. Every one of those variables will have a say in what one chooses to go with. I just know my combo and what I can do with carbs on my deal.

What I'm using in my application works great for me atm. EFI is'nt really going make me ET faster, run any cleaner on the street, or start/idle any easier, so its a moot point.

In addition, I could use the 10+K that it would co$t me to go EFI properly in different areas of the car. The co$t v gain for me at present is'nt there; perhaps in a different application in the future it would be, but not atm on this combo.

In time with a different future planned setup I will review its's value proposition then ;)
 
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Sure, that's cool and that's great, for his application. I don't know his combination, car/use, engine specs, compression, locality / ambient temps, cam specs, fuel quality, daily driver status (?) or any of the other important variables. Every one of those variables will have a say in what one chooses to go with. I just know my combo and what I can do with carbs on my deal.

What I'm using in my application works great for me atm. EFI is'nt really going make me ET faster, run any cleaner on the street, or start/idle any easier, so its a moot point.

In addition, I could use the 10+K that it would co$t me to go EFI properly in different areas of the car. The co$t v gain for me at present is'nt there; perhaps in a different application in the future it would be, but not atm on this combo.

In time with a different future planned setup I will review its's value proposition then ;)
One is a mild 5.9 Magnum in a 62 Savoy. The other is a rip-roaring ~500hp Ray Barton motor in a road-race Valiant.
 
One is a mild 5.9 Magnum in a 62 Savoy. The other is a rip-roaring ~ 500hp Ray Barton motor in a road-race Valiant.

Sounds nice !

I'm running a 572 Hemi, 880 HP / 770 TQ, dual 800 carbs, idles from a dead cold after 30 secs, 280 @ .050 roller, 15:1 idle, cruises in the high 14s, WOT mid 12s.

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EFI is nice, but I'll stick with the carbs for now :thumbsup:
 
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