Here's my tranny recommendation.
Tranny Recommendations for 600 HP
- Thread starter 1BA1970Dart
- Start date
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transman
Well-Known Member
Another consideration you should think about is the weight of your car. The TH2004R was considered a lightweight unit, and was never really considered a HD unit. Yes, any transmisson can be made HD, all it takes in MONEY. From what I've seen the TH700R4 is proving popular with a lot of the street rodders, but most of them don't have the HP you have. The 700 can be built up of course but again, money is involved. I've seen ads from various companies claiming they can make a 700 stand up to 1000 HP, but never say for how long. The 2004r and 700r4 were built by GM for economy purposes. Take one or the other apart and instead of cast parts, you'll see a lot of light weight steel goodies.
As others have said, the TF727 is probably your best bet, and with the HP you've got, gas mileage is not going to be the best no matter what automatic you choose.
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
That's a 727 tailshaft in those pictures!
Also mention of "another 727 built"
Also mention of "another 727 built"
71Scamper
Mopar runs thru my veins!
but if you read there's mention that he's going to be building a 727 instead of what he already had. Not sure if it was 727 or 904 but he made it sound like it was a 904.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Yes I noticed that too. He says he built another 727 for it. Also look at the pump..... It looks like a 727 pump and the Sun Shell looks HUGE compared to the 904......maybe its the picture.
That is definately a 727, Just looked up the sunshell on wittrans.com the 727 shell is not as deep as the 904 and the circumference is alot smaller. Also the 904 pump does not have that plastic vent/pickup on the pump that faces the inside of the trans.
One thing that threw me off is the pan rail on the trans. Looks like a 904. Did other years have a different pattern? Maybe that is the picture also. Looks like it is a 727 now that I looked at it harder?
Dragonbat13
Well-Known Member
I am going out on a limb, and may be wrong, but in the top right of the tranny pan it looks as though the hole for the dipstick is on a kicked out portion on the pan. IIRC one tranny has the kickout (I cant remember which) and one doesnt.
Also, I think he ought to build the tranny he already has and use the correct converter with correct governor weights and kickdown. Let it shift on its own. Slam a nice shift kit, decent clutch and bands, new bushings, bolt in sprag, correct kickdown lever and correct kickdown setup and that 727 will bang with the best.
It has always amazed me how many people dump the shifting on its own instead of putting all the good parts (mostly factory, like the correct kickdown and gov. weights) in either tranny and seeing the full potential of the torqueflite.
Also, I think he ought to build the tranny he already has and use the correct converter with correct governor weights and kickdown. Let it shift on its own. Slam a nice shift kit, decent clutch and bands, new bushings, bolt in sprag, correct kickdown lever and correct kickdown setup and that 727 will bang with the best.
It has always amazed me how many people dump the shifting on its own instead of putting all the good parts (mostly factory, like the correct kickdown and gov. weights) in either tranny and seeing the full potential of the torqueflite.
The dipstick looks like it's on a kickout, 727 tailshaft, big sunshell and pump, accumulator shape and missing 904 strut... looks like a 727 to me.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Ok so it is a 727 that went Kaboom. This transmission did not have a Low Band Apply Valve Body. FYI
I am still curious if anybody has any knowledge of a 904 Exploding like the 727? I have searched everywhere and come up with nothing.
I am still curious if anybody has any knowledge of a 904 Exploding like the 727? I have searched everywhere and come up with nothing.
grassy
Well-Known Member
Dragonbat13
Well-Known Member
Dont they both have a pressed in sprag with weak dowel pins?
Isnt it a sprag failure that causes a first gear burnout grenade?
If so than they should both be prone to the blowups.
Isnt it a sprag failure that causes a first gear burnout grenade?
If so than they should both be prone to the blowups.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
The Rotating MASS of the 727 Drum is why it explodes when the Sprag rolls over. The transmission will rev 2.2 X Faster than the engine RPM so around 14K RPM the 727 Drum will usually come apart. The 904 does not have the same problem because the Drum is not as big or heavy and can take right around 20K+ RPM before it fails. I have yet to see a 904 come apart from a front drum explosion. If anyone can prove different please have at it I would really like to see one.
It's the mass of the potentially detonating components. Can a 904 drum explode, yes they can, BUT, it takes a serious effort to get there.
727 is bigger in diameter and much heavier than the 904. It takes about 13500 rpm to grenade a 727 drum. With a 2.45 first gear multiplying revolutions, a mid 5K mill can get you to critical mass.
A 904 drum takes about 24000 rpm to reach critical mass. With the same 2.45 first gear that's an engine RPM of roughly 9800. If you have a 2.74 it's ~8800 rpm to get there. Not too many mopars turning those type of RPMS.
With some of the R5/P7 engines making appearances in drag cars, a 904 being used may experience an explosion especially with a low gear set. Those engines put out some serious power and a 904 may not be the best choice unless it's a very light car..
This is beginning to sound like the BS rumor of a small block Mopar grenading at 600hp, isn't it?
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
The issue with that statement is how YOU'RE running the 600hp or more sb...
A pass at a time isn't all the bad, running it at it's potential for more than a quick pass and then the chance they'll come apart is a very good way to see it...
I have taken sb and gone 600hp, but then again im not running it at it's potential for 5 miles, where there would be a issue with the ability of it to handle more than 9 second at a time use.
When guys building motors say they don't handle it, they're saying that to a customer whom they DO NOT know and have NO CLUE what that person is going to do with the 600+ hp sb they built him in a stock block.
So will 600 plus hp live in a unfilled stock block for 9 seconds at a time, i have seen that not be a issue, would i say the same for the guy wanting to do it on a road coarse all day...or some top speed event where it's gonna be at it's potential for more than 9 seconds....
We can find out, i'll build you one and set it on the dyno at it's potential for 5 minutes, in 5 minutes and 1 second you either got a reliable sb or a good explosive video....
I tell people that 3" AL shouldn't be used in more than 500hp apps for normal race weight drag vehicles, well my math says it shouldn't see more than 500hp apps, but i have a customer who continually goes 1.26 60's at more than 500hp on a 3" AL shaft i built him, but guess what ? im still not building 3" AL shafts for more than 500hp in those apps just because his has been fine.
Same with building a stock block for more than or just over 600hp...
Would you build a 610hp sb for someone and tell them it'll be fine... it's you're name and rep? you're going to do it ?
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Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Ok your nuts........... Many have surpassed whatever you are getting at and that is why I started this thread here a long while back........ Over 900HP to the tires and they live!
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=165579&highlight=600hp
Wow. Someone got offended.
I build my own engines, and I have a stroker small block that has seen well over 600hp when it gets a 150 shot of spray, and it made over 50 passes in a 4800lb 4x4 truck, and is still happily alive in my Dart right now.
The Dart (which also has a 904) gets driven on the street frequently, and for some reason, the engine doesn't explode every time I crank it up.
The problem I have with what you said is that if you're telling customers that a small block won't handle over 600hp, then they immediately take that as gospel, and start spreading bullshit rumors.
Then those rumors turn into a general statement like "Mopar Small blocks are garbage, and can't handle any power." Which is complete bullshit, and anyone who has ever actually built one knows that.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
:thumbup:
aengineguy
Well-Known Member
2 cents......
My 408 is probably in the 550 hp range, pretty stinking radical. John Cope built my 904. Zero issues, awesome tranny, crisp as a cracker. Was at St. Louis Monster Mopar a few years back and he said he probably built more than 50 of the trannies running there that day. Again, he knows Mopars. But he is in northern Indiana.
My 408 is probably in the 550 hp range, pretty stinking radical. John Cope built my 904. Zero issues, awesome tranny, crisp as a cracker. Was at St. Louis Monster Mopar a few years back and he said he probably built more than 50 of the trannies running there that day. Again, he knows Mopars. But he is in northern Indiana.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Well if you can build with Lego's you can build a Torqueflite. I could not imagine if you did these everyday. You could rebuild one complete in about 1 hour if that is all you did........... they are that easy to work on. WAY and I mean WAY easier than building an engine!!
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
Again this misses what is understood as living, 900hp to the tires for how long , would you put that same motor in a baha car, or super speedway car, or outlaw car or boat and expect to finish??
Are you going to make the same claim Mercury does with there 1400hp motor ??? or there turbo motor ??
ANYTHING can do it for a short period, you aren't running at 900hp all day, and most shops aren't going to build something for someone that may try and do such a thing and then it comes apart without saying this isn't the best option for this build...
Would you put your factory block at that hp and leave it there and see how long it stays together.
You can hit factory blocks with 400 and 600 hits, but guess how long that lasts ? it doesn't last forever and you can find out within one short day if you do it enough..
So again having 900hp on for a few seconds is not the same as putting that in a outlaw car and maybe completing 5 laps.
Now whats wrong in telling a customer this won't handle 600hp reliably ?
Again have you seen what some people do with things when you tell them something will handle it?
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
Im not offended, again reliability seems to be overlooked when talking about building 600+ and factory blocks, listen i have done it and do it, but again im not running them all day at that level, nor would i guarantee it or put my name on it for someone to do whatever.
It also doesn't make them garbage, gm and fords all have the same issues, some blocks have more ability than others lots of blocks aren't designed to reliably seeing 600+ hp.
Mad Dart
Nothing to see Here!
Your still missing it......... The car with over 900HP to the tires ran Several HUNDRED times at the track and lived for Years of driving on the Street too.
The point of that thread was to prove that all these guys saying 600HP is the limit for the stock block!! Saying "It is going to BLOW UP, Crack the Block, Split the Mains etc" There has not been 1 "Proven Case" in that thread that can say I blew my motor up when I reached 600 HP at any type of use... End of Story.
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