Here's one...
Trying to finally get my first Muscle Car - I’m nervous
- Thread starter Gold Crusader
- Start date
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Your enthusiasm is great to see along with the fact you’re hearing some faint alarm bells (your nervousness). It’s not all going to be roses and sunshine, especially when restoring or even maintaining a Mopar (relative to a Ford or Chev).
There was a member here last Fall, an eager college student in Colorado I think, who bought a basket case of a Duster not realizing how much work it was to bring back to life considering his limited toolbox, curb parking, student life and mechanical skills. It took courage for him to realise he was in over his head and he sold the project at a slight loss I think. Yup, pride was probably hurt but it was the right thing to do before throwing limited skills and funds down a very black hole. A great learning opportunity that will probably pay huge dividends for him later in life.
There was a member here last Fall, an eager college student in Colorado I think, who bought a basket case of a Duster not realizing how much work it was to bring back to life considering his limited toolbox, curb parking, student life and mechanical skills. It took courage for him to realise he was in over his head and he sold the project at a slight loss I think. Yup, pride was probably hurt but it was the right thing to do before throwing limited skills and funds down a very black hole. A great learning opportunity that will probably pay huge dividends for him later in life.
Totally agree.
There should be a whole world of difference between an A-body thats worth $11k and one that's worth $20k. And I'm not saying you can't get a decent driver for $11k either, especially if you broaden your horizons beyond only looking at demons. But $20k should be a pretty nice A-body. Actually, unless it's a 383 or 340 car, it should be a really nice A-body. And regardless, I would recommend holding onto some money in case you need to put some into it. Like, if your budget is $20-25k I wouldn't spend more than $20k, so there's some money for stuff that comes up immediately.
Gold Crusader
Well-Known Member
Yes, exactly! I want to spend the money now before I can’t lol.
Hahaha this is great!Sorry but I gotta say dont do it. Not trying to be an ***, but..
1. You have limited mech skills
2. Both you want kids so you hope to sell it for a minivan in a few years?
3. Worldwide pandemic.
Sorry just my opinion, if my friend and we were shooting the **** and he had the same scenario as you I would tell him the same thing.
You got a good looking girlfriend, ride herit will cost u less(hopefully)
Just my opinion.
ESP47
Well-Known Member
Yeah that Demon has way too much to undo. The asking price looks nice but when you look closer you can really see a lot wrong with it that will nickel and dime you to death.
In socal there is a similar looking Demon for $16k. I believe it has a brand new sublime green paint job and a rebuilt stroker with a 4 speed. It needs a complete interior though. It's been on facebook for a couple months now so something tells me there's probably something wrong with it.
In socal there is a similar looking Demon for $16k. I believe it has a brand new sublime green paint job and a rebuilt stroker with a 4 speed. It needs a complete interior though. It's been on facebook for a couple months now so something tells me there's probably something wrong with it.
Gold Crusader
Well-Known Member
Thank you! That would be really cool. I need all the help I can get.
I never had anyone in my life that knew anything about cars. My family moved around a lot and I never had a stable enough home to buy a project and teach myself. Now that I'm 28 and living at an appartment (where I can rent a garage if need be) I'm starting to realize that there is NEVER a good time to purchase a Mopar. I always get this advice:
1. Don't buy the first thing you see. (When do I know the car I'm looking at isn't the "first thing I saw".)
2. Buy a project car. Muscle cars aren't worth it unless you built it. (I don't have the skills, don't have the time for any major mechanical skill development, I don't have the tools or space. Buying a project car truly would be irresponsible. HOWEVER
I know 100% in my heart I will buy a project car when I have all the above and am excited to do so. I want to teach my kids how to do this and build a car with them. This will be years and years from now. I can't wait that long to drive a classic haha)3. When buying a classic car you either need to know what you're doing or know someone who does or hire someone to check it out. (This is tough when I'm so ignorant. I'm already so thankful for people on this forum who are offering to help me. Still, this makes the process even more nerve wracking).
4. Classic cars aren't investments (Even if this is true, this doesn't bother me at all. I wasn't buying the car as an investment, not at all.)
5. That money should go to a house. (But if I do that, I'll never get a classic, not until I'm in my late 30's or early 40's. There will always be some other more responsible purchase. I'm seeing this now.)
6. It'll be fun for a month or two, then the buyer's remorse sets in. (It's a mopar... I don't see how I could ever get bored. The buyer's remorse I would feel just because of reason 5)
7. You already have a car. (I know... but it's not a classic. <- this isn't a good argument for most)
8. Too much trouble. You'll always have to take real good care of them and get ready to work on them when they inevitably meet hickups (This one is perfectly fine and doesn't bother me at all).
When I try to actually get serious about a car I get all five of these things swirling around in my head. It's hard doing this all alone without any friends or family who know the first thing about muscle cars. They all actually think I'm insane.
You're not insane. I've been daily driving a classic mopar for over 12 years now. First my '72 Challenger and now my '74 Duster. I haven't even owned a car newer than I am in that time, the '74 Duster has been the newest car I've owned since '08.
Now, I do all of my own work and I grew up in an auto repair shop. And while a classic as a daily driver is possible, I wouldn't recommend it to someone without a decent mechanical background. I'm not saying don't buy one, I'm just saying don't sell your daily just yet.
As for the rest of your list
1. Good advice. Especially looking at old cars. Unlike new ones you can't just buy the next one over on the lot, so, there's some excitement in finding one you want. Which can blind you to the issues of that particular car. It helps to look at a bunch, you get a better idea of what to look for. On that note, don't be afraid to go look at other classic mopars, even if they're not "the one". If nothing else, you'll see some good/bad things to look for. And who knows, you may change your idea of "the one". My Challenger was the first mopar I looked at, and I blew it even with a long history in classic cars. I love it, don't get me wrong, and I put 70k+ miles on it. But the thing is a rust bucket, and I saw half a dozen cleaner cars for sale in the 3 months after I bought it. Patience would have saved me a small fortune in rust repair.
2. Terrible advice. All classics are money pits. Most of your money is made on the purchase, the rest is inflation and what's currently popular. The money you put into them after you buy them is almost always a loss. This is especially true if you're paying someone else to work on them. I love working on my cars and ALL of them are projects. Which is why I can say I would totally have been "ahead" in most cases buying a finished car. If you've got the money to buy a finished one, don't buy a project.
3. Definitely helps, especially if you can find someone you trust
4. Investors are assholes that have ruined the hobby, and most cars are money pits. Investment quality stuff loses value if you drive it anyway, so, that's not where you're at.
5. Yeah, probably, but life is short. If you don't enjoy it now, you might not get the chance to later. No guarantees.
6. Maybe. But if you decide it's not for you then you sell it. If it's only a few months, you shouldn't lose much money and then you'll know
7. One is never enough.
8. They're not easy, but if they were everyone would have one. And if it's too big of a pain, sell it. New cars break down too.
Now, I do all of my own work and I grew up in an auto repair shop. And while a classic as a daily driver is possible, I wouldn't recommend it to someone without a decent mechanical background. I'm not saying don't buy one, I'm just saying don't sell your daily just yet.
As for the rest of your list
1. Good advice. Especially looking at old cars. Unlike new ones you can't just buy the next one over on the lot, so, there's some excitement in finding one you want. Which can blind you to the issues of that particular car. It helps to look at a bunch, you get a better idea of what to look for. On that note, don't be afraid to go look at other classic mopars, even if they're not "the one". If nothing else, you'll see some good/bad things to look for. And who knows, you may change your idea of "the one". My Challenger was the first mopar I looked at, and I blew it even with a long history in classic cars. I love it, don't get me wrong, and I put 70k+ miles on it. But the thing is a rust bucket, and I saw half a dozen cleaner cars for sale in the 3 months after I bought it. Patience would have saved me a small fortune in rust repair.
2. Terrible advice. All classics are money pits. Most of your money is made on the purchase, the rest is inflation and what's currently popular. The money you put into them after you buy them is almost always a loss. This is especially true if you're paying someone else to work on them. I love working on my cars and ALL of them are projects. Which is why I can say I would totally have been "ahead" in most cases buying a finished car. If you've got the money to buy a finished one, don't buy a project.
3. Definitely helps, especially if you can find someone you trust
4. Investors are assholes that have ruined the hobby, and most cars are money pits. Investment quality stuff loses value if you drive it anyway, so, that's not where you're at.
5. Yeah, probably, but life is short. If you don't enjoy it now, you might not get the chance to later. No guarantees.
6. Maybe. But if you decide it's not for you then you sell it. If it's only a few months, you shouldn't lose much money and then you'll know
7. One is never enough.
8. They're not easy, but if they were everyone would have one. And if it's too big of a pain, sell it. New cars break down too.
Being as you said it was a former race car, I would pass on it also if you want a street car. When I bought my Demon, I WAS looking for a race car & luckily I found it. The car was on Racing Junk & had been for a while. I went & looked at the car but it wasn't in my budget range. After it stayed on RJ for a while longer, I called the owner & made him an offer. My suggestion to you, find someone on FABO in your area that is familiar with cars & A bodies, Ask for his/her assistance when looking at local cars, offer lunch or whatever as payment for their time. You will eventually find what you are looking for & if you get some help, you will have a friend with mutual interest in the A body arena.
Bill Crowell
Well-Known Member
"The GF giveth, and the GF taketh away"
No disrespect intended; this is supposed to be helpful advice: if you have to ask your GF for her permission to spend the money the way you want, what happens if you put a lot of time and money into the car, and then she decides it's costing too much? Do you have to get rid of it then? I know your mileage may vary from mine, but you can't have a wife or GF calling the shots when you're trying to restore a car because they're not a stakeholder. They're not paying for it, and they're not doing the work. That's why I always tell car guys they've got to keep their wives and GFs in their place: out of the garage and out of the financial decision-making process. I don't play the "good provider" game, wherein the guy has to make all the money but his wife gets to decide how to spend it.
And maybe that's why I'm single, but I wouldn't have any of the nice things I've got if I had to run every financial decision past my woman. But I would have granite countertops instead. Just food for thought.
No disrespect intended; this is supposed to be helpful advice: if you have to ask your GF for her permission to spend the money the way you want, what happens if you put a lot of time and money into the car, and then she decides it's costing too much? Do you have to get rid of it then? I know your mileage may vary from mine, but you can't have a wife or GF calling the shots when you're trying to restore a car because they're not a stakeholder. They're not paying for it, and they're not doing the work. That's why I always tell car guys they've got to keep their wives and GFs in their place: out of the garage and out of the financial decision-making process. I don't play the "good provider" game, wherein the guy has to make all the money but his wife gets to decide how to spend it.
And maybe that's why I'm single, but I wouldn't have any of the nice things I've got if I had to run every financial decision past my woman. But I would have granite countertops instead. Just food for thought.
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You are getting a lot of good advice here. If you have limited skills by all means take advantage of the offers of help from your local members. Rust is a deal killer and if you find some no matter how little you think there is, in general there is lots more you don't know about. I would absolutely get a complete good running car as a first step. There is always something you can tinker with to build your skills as you go. I got my first classic Mopar (66 Valiant) and it is a super clean driver. I would daily this car in a heartbeat. All I had to do with it was fix all the leaks and it was ready to go. I'm a moderately skilled soul so buying a more ambitious project (69 Dart) was OK with me but I'm retired and have plenty of time, space, tools, and so forth to work on it. Especially at your stage of life, a serious project can easily turn into a 20 years later still parked in the garage and it's gone nowhere ever kind of deal.
I guess I got lucky with my spouse. She has no problems with me & my race car, as long as I don't use household funds to finance my habit. I use my swap meet funds & part time employment to finance my habit. Sometimes we have to dip into "my" funds is something unexpected comes up, but that's rare. When we do have to use some of the race car fund, she makes sure that the money gets back ASAP. She also enjoys bracket racing because she can identify with the cars being raced.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Do not walk... RUN away from that Demon.
My quick story will explain a lot. I paid $7500 for my 1972 Duster because in my “point system” as stated in earlier posts allowed that one to hit almost all the marks.
Wanted: run and drive 1970-72 Duster/Demon with 340/727/8.75 and in green.
Bought: Running and driving 1972 Duster with 340/727/8.75 in green.
So for $7500 it checked all the boxes right... yes... but only because I was willing to put some time and money, and elbow grease into it because it was a collage of cars.
Was slant 6 original car that was drivetrain swapped and had a dash fire last year. So on to the closing statements. I quit counting how much dollars in parts I bought after passing original purchase price... and I have barely just begun on the rework process of everything. Rebuild entire rear axle, redo all brakes including upgrade to power disc, new suspension, new wiring, new interior, new wheels and tires, and fixing everything that was touched before me that is wrong. $20,000 would have gotten me ready to go pretty good, but without my own personal touch... of starting with a pig in a poke lol.
My quick story will explain a lot. I paid $7500 for my 1972 Duster because in my “point system” as stated in earlier posts allowed that one to hit almost all the marks.
Wanted: run and drive 1970-72 Duster/Demon with 340/727/8.75 and in green.
Bought: Running and driving 1972 Duster with 340/727/8.75 in green.
So for $7500 it checked all the boxes right... yes... but only because I was willing to put some time and money, and elbow grease into it because it was a collage of cars.
Was slant 6 original car that was drivetrain swapped and had a dash fire last year. So on to the closing statements. I quit counting how much dollars in parts I bought after passing original purchase price... and I have barely just begun on the rework process of everything. Rebuild entire rear axle, redo all brakes including upgrade to power disc, new suspension, new wiring, new interior, new wheels and tires, and fixing everything that was touched before me that is wrong. $20,000 would have gotten me ready to go pretty good, but without my own personal touch... of starting with a pig in a poke lol.
Lots of good advice. I'll "alter" my opinion somewhat. Find an older 6 cyl or sb 2bl, that hasnt been "worked" on and is close to factory as possible. The less hands/owners it's been thru the better. If its "less" in performance and "more" to original it will probably be more reliable. Set aside a certain % of your budget for emergency repairs. $20k budget?? Set $5k aside for "emergency". Especially if this is your daily driver. Brakes, rad, engine rebuild, whatever pops up. If it's a dd you may not have the time to learn to diagnose/repair something,(no big deal) so you may have to pay someone to get it fixed in a timely manner.
Cutout the minivan and go straight to a wagon. Cool as hell and be in the family forever.
Good luck, and hope my prev post wasnt too negative lol.
Cutout the minivan and go straight to a wagon. Cool as hell and be in the family forever.
Good luck, and hope my prev post wasnt too negative lol.
That’s exactly why you’re single. It’s also why if you search “divorce” on here you get a whole ton of hits.
If you want your car hobby and your relationship to work long term, it’s best not to separate them. Just builds animosity. Yeah, you shouldn’t need “approval” for every decision you make, but you should have the respect to involve your significant other in large decisions that will effect you both. It’s about trust and respect. Buying a car is a big decision, old or new. Even if the money isn’t an issue.
See, that’s how it’s supposed to work. You communicated, established boundaries, and work together. If you stick to the plan you don’t need any hand holding, and if something comes up you discuss it. Heck it’s almost like you trust each other.
I have a similar arrangement. I pay for all of my projects out of “my” money (we have our own accounts). As long as the bills I’m responsible for get paid and I don’t dip into the savings account we keep for the house and emergency expenses I have pretty free reign usually. Currently I’m on a bit of a “new project” moratorium, but that’s because I have like a dozen cars so I did that to myself.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
consider the cost of having things done
i think point number 2 is on its head
in fact, take a look at our for sale section, many guys list the work done to their cars, and then sell them for half of what they got into it
now, body work for instance runs an easy 100 bucks an hour
that is money you can put into a car, you will NEVER get back
if you can do it yourself, you can save a lot of money, but we allready discusses that, you dont feel comfortable doing it
then you mentioned you live in an apartment where you can rent a garage if needed
i doubt that is the ideal place to swap an engine
(now, keep in mind, swapping an engine in one of these old cars isnt a very big deal at all)
i used to own a duplex on one of the main streets in my town (in fact, for years my car was knows as the james street duster)
anyway, i swapped the 225 out of a 360 in my driveway
and i did this one piece at a time (it was my first time doing this, so i took my time)
well, even though i OWNED the house, and the property it was on, i still got a cease and desist letter from the township stating i was in violation of local zoning laws by doing "major vehicular repairs" in my driveway (in fact, i wasnt repairing anything, i was simply adding the two cylinders the ma mopar forgot when she first build my car)
i was able to call the number, talk to a real person, and get it all squared away, but i cant imagine having to try and do that in a apartment complex
my advise to you, is take 15-20 grand of your budget and buy a driver
even if you end up with a car that is not a demon, switching the front end only takes a few hours like little boy blue mentioned
and any car you consider, put it on here, you will get honest reviews on it, and several guys allready offered to look at cars for you, if they are close enough
remember i said i switched mine from a 225 to a 360?
i posted a question on how to best mate the transmission to it (since i only worked on manuals before)
one of the guys on here said "lemme grab my tools ill be right over"
you have access to that some group here
so take you're time, figure out what you can, and can not tackle and well get you rolling in no time
i think point number 2 is on its head
in fact, take a look at our for sale section, many guys list the work done to their cars, and then sell them for half of what they got into it
now, body work for instance runs an easy 100 bucks an hour
that is money you can put into a car, you will NEVER get back
if you can do it yourself, you can save a lot of money, but we allready discusses that, you dont feel comfortable doing it
then you mentioned you live in an apartment where you can rent a garage if needed
i doubt that is the ideal place to swap an engine
(now, keep in mind, swapping an engine in one of these old cars isnt a very big deal at all)
i used to own a duplex on one of the main streets in my town (in fact, for years my car was knows as the james street duster)
anyway, i swapped the 225 out of a 360 in my driveway
and i did this one piece at a time (it was my first time doing this, so i took my time)
well, even though i OWNED the house, and the property it was on, i still got a cease and desist letter from the township stating i was in violation of local zoning laws by doing "major vehicular repairs" in my driveway (in fact, i wasnt repairing anything, i was simply adding the two cylinders the ma mopar forgot when she first build my car)
i was able to call the number, talk to a real person, and get it all squared away, but i cant imagine having to try and do that in a apartment complex
my advise to you, is take 15-20 grand of your budget and buy a driver
even if you end up with a car that is not a demon, switching the front end only takes a few hours like little boy blue mentioned
and any car you consider, put it on here, you will get honest reviews on it, and several guys allready offered to look at cars for you, if they are close enough
remember i said i switched mine from a 225 to a 360?
i posted a question on how to best mate the transmission to it (since i only worked on manuals before)
one of the guys on here said "lemme grab my tools ill be right over"
you have access to that some group here
so take you're time, figure out what you can, and can not tackle and well get you rolling in no time
When I bought my car, I sat down & figured out what it would cost to get a bare bones Demon body to the point that I bought mine (rolling race car). I based all of the costs on purchasing the parts already on my car, & not counting the welding, body work, & paint. I came up with a 5 digit figure, 20k+. I paid less than half of that for the car in my avatar picture. I won't go into the details how how much & what was on the car but I'm sure if you think about 20K it can be figured. As of today, with all I've done since the initial purchase, I have well over 30K in it, I will never see that kind of money "if" I ever decide to sell.
Check the classified on this site, I have bought two cars here, and am satisfied with both purchases.
Also don't be afraid to travel to get the right car, the last car I bought off here I traveled 2000 miles in two days, pulling a trailer with my truck, but it was worth it.
Also don't be afraid to travel to get the right car, the last car I bought off here I traveled 2000 miles in two days, pulling a trailer with my truck, but it was worth it.
Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
Easiest way to think about old cars is... it’s all about the love of them and what you can afford, not what you can get back out of it if and when sold. While it is nice to think you can break even later... no one can predict the market of these old cars, since it’s all about discretionary income of potential buyers that drives price you can get when selling, regardless of if the potential buyer sees the value you have invested into the car. If you find a car you like and start to enjoy it, don’t be afraid to sink money into it to make the necessary changes to make it suit you. If you leave it “stock” to “protect the value” and you never get to fully enjoy your time behind the wheel, and still lose 5 grand on it down the road if you sell, what’s the point if you saved 5 grand not making it your own and didn’t enjoy it to the fullest.
K.O. SWINGER
Meeting in the alley since 1976
Okay this may seem a little random but I have also owned my same 340 swinger for over 40 years it is basically rust free with original wiring throughout original transmission rear end and original glass etc. 20 grand still is a lot of money and can buy a very nice A body, purchase a car that is clean rust free and complete as much as possible and online with what your final goal. is I believe it is imperative to have a place to keep it dry and out of the elements so that you can comfortably work on it as needed. no use making a purchase like this and then letting it deteriorate out in the weather. it can develop more problems before you have time to fix the ones that exist it will greatly benefit you to keep it dry! I personally am not a fan of the daily driver scenario you will spend a great amount of time just keeping it roadworthy and semi-dependable which makes it really hard to move forward on your project it also can take away the fun of working on it very quickly and that won't make anyone happy. these projects take a lot of time patience and you have to enjoy that. I think it's a wonderful hobby but you have to enjoy the journey.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
I’ll make a suggestion, why not dip your toes in the pool instead of jumping in? Maybe look for a nice driver quality car of lesser value, /6 duster, 318 dart sport etc, as a first old car and learn some of the valuable techniques it takes to keep one on the road. For a few thousand you could probably have a very nice A body that isn’t extremely sought after but will be your “classroom” for the time being. You’ll still have a classic, fun car, and the experience you get will go a long way toward maintaining (or building) a much nicer car in the future. And when the time comes to sell it for your demon, you could probably recoup most of the investment if you just maintain it.
This is very good advice, my Orange Duster I restored too nice, did not even drive it last year even though it is 99% done, but I bought a plain jane 6 cyl Duster and drive it everywhere, old plane jane has dents and scratches, minor rust, but I am not afraid to park it anywhere, way more fun than a restored car.
loganscuda
This/These
You can rent a storage unit. A member here did that and built a twin turbo car in the storage unit. The car looks like Bitchen Rides build. Very nicely done. Custom everything. Again that’s more money.
69moredoor
Well-Known Member
Buy a running / driving more door.
Use it as a textbook to learn.
They are inexpensive and can scratch the itch just enough
Use it as a textbook to learn.
They are inexpensive and can scratch the itch just enough
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
And can be a great replacement for a boring *** minivan.
Gold Crusader
Well-Known Member
Thank you guys for all the advice! What would be the best place to get a loan for a classic car? Any suggestions?
Also, I was really set on getting one with a manual transmission, but someone on the forum has offered a really cool Plymouth Duster with an automatic transmission with a B&M shifter which I've never tried before. The pros of an automatic would mean I could let people I trust 100% take it for a spin (with me in the car of course haha). Most people I know don't drive manual. Besides, I'm having a hard time finding manual muscle cars for some reason. But people talk so much crap about the automatics I'm just not sure what to think.
Also, I was really set on getting one with a manual transmission, but someone on the forum has offered a really cool Plymouth Duster with an automatic transmission with a B&M shifter which I've never tried before. The pros of an automatic would mean I could let people I trust 100% take it for a spin (with me in the car of course haha). Most people I know don't drive manual. Besides, I'm having a hard time finding manual muscle cars for some reason. But people talk so much crap about the automatics I'm just not sure what to think.
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