Update on total engine timing

[Jax]

Recommended total engine timing

Don't know why the above thread isn't available anymore for posting, but anyways here follows some updates...

Lower the total timing to 34 degrees, and the MPH didn't change at all they remained the same.
Change to NGK BKR6E spark plugs, and gapped to 0.028". Former spark plugs were Champion RC12YC gapped to 0.030"

The car ran way cleaner, the misfiring at top end went away. There is only a light misfiring when shifting to 2nd gear.

 

[dano]

So what did you do to get to 34? As in what was your initial?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Recommended total engine timing

Don't know why the above thread isn't available anymore for posting, but anyways here follows some updates...

Lower the total timing to 34 degrees, and the MPH didn't change at all they remained the same.
Change to NGK BKR6E spark plugs, and gapped to 0.028". Former spark plugs were Champion RC12YC gapped to 0.030"

The car ran way cleaner, the misfiring at top end went away. There is only a light misfiring when shifting to 2nd gear.

34 at what RPM? Without knowing the RPM the timing number means almost nothing.

 

[Jax]

34 degrees @ 3500 rpm. Locked timing

 

[Newbomb Turk]

34 degrees @ 3500 rpm. Locked timing

Ok, that makes zero sense.

Either the timing is in at 3500 or it’s locked. It can’t be both.

 

[TT5.9mag]

34 degrees @ 3500 rpm. Locked timing

Wait….what? If it’s locked, it’s 34 from idle to infinity and everything in between.

 

[eekvonzipper]

Must have that new 0-16 Oil in it.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

And for the record, the plug change did nothing. He could have kept the Champions, fixed the timing and be in the same place where he is now.

An NGK plug won’t save the world.

 

[Mean416]

Maybe he's saying all in at 3500?

What's initial timing?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I think this came up in the other thread but I never understood what he was saying there either.

 

[92b]

Ok, that makes zero sense.

Either the timing is in at 3500 or it’s locked. It can’t be both.

You asked 34 degrees at what rpm. He answered 34 degrees at 3500 rpm. And he added that the distributor is locked. Why can't the timing be at 34 degrees at 3500 and be locked?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

You asked 34 degrees at what rpm. He answered 34 degrees at 3500 rpm. And he added that the distributor is locked. Why can't the timing be at 34 degrees at 3500 and be locked?

Because to most of us locked means the timing is locked out, not that it is at its maximum.

And if it was 34 at 3500 before this thread started how can it be 34 at 3500 now and claim he lowered the timing because he didn’t say that in post 1?

Did he just lower the initial and leave the total where it was? Who knows?

Did he misspeak in his first post and mix up his numbers? Who knows.

What I do know if he has 34 degrees at 3500 that is below or very close to peak torque, and that’s too much timing at that rpm.

But we don’t know because we don’t have all the numbers.

In fact, I think he said in the other post he was shifting at 6500. If that’s the case he is probably at 4k at peak torque.

He probably has 8 degrees too much timing at peak torque. Even figuring in some retard. Which means at 6500 he doesn’t have enough timing.

Again, we don’t know. We are all guessing at best.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Because to most of us locked means the timing is locked out, not that it is at its maximum.

And if it was 34 at 3500 before this thread started how can it be 34 at 3500 now and claim he lowered the timing because he didn’t say that in post 1?

Did he just lower the initial and leave the total where it was? Who knows?

Did he misspeak in his first post and mix up his numbers? Who knows.

What I do know if he has 34 degrees at 3500 that is below or very close to peak torque, and that’s too much timing at that rpm.

But we don’t know because we don’t have all the numbers.

In fact, I think he said in the other post he was shifting at 6500. If that’s the case he is probably at 4k at peak torque.

He probably has 8 degrees too much timing at peak torque. Even figuring in some retard. Which means at 6500 he doesn’t have enough timing.

Again, we don’t know. We are all guessing at best.

Just like the other thread. People don't know correct terminology so they just throw stuff around.

To the OP, here's what locked out timing is. When timing is locked out, that means it has Lets say in your case, it would have 35 degrees timing sittin in the driveway not running. 35 degrees timing started and idling. 35 degrees timing pulling out of the driveway. 35 degrees timing cruising down the road. 35 degrees timing at 120 MPH. in other words 35 degrees timing ALL THE TIME. If that's what you have, then your timing is locked out. If you have say 20 degrees initial timing at idle and 35 total, your timing is NOT locked out. Do you understand? So tell us which it is. Is it locked out or not?

 

[Mattax]

In the first post of the other thread he wrote that's is an MSD 'digital' ignition.
I don't know MSD's current products. But maybe the way that is set up is adding to the confusion of the languarge. Maybe the distributor is locked and the timing curve is in the box.

@Jax.
Mechanical timing normally changes with rpm.
On a factory car we set timing at or near idle rpm.
On a hot rod or race car we check timing at higher rpms as well as idle.
Then the timing curve can be plotted and drawn like this

This may help
Timing Terms and Purpose of Timing

 

[Newbomb Turk]

In the first post of the other thread he wrote that's is an MSD 'digital' ignition.
I don't know MSD's current products. But maybe the way that is set up is adding to the confusion of the languarge. Maybe the distributor is locked and the timing curve is in the box.

@Jax.
Mechanical timing normally changes with rpm.
On a factory car we set timing at or near idle rpm.
On a hot rod or race car we check timing at higher rpms as well as idle.
Then the timing curve can be plotted and drawn like this
View attachment 1716414072

This may help
Timing Terms and Purpose of Timing

That may be the case. I missed the digital ignition part.

We still need to know the rpm at which the curve stops and if that’s 3500 he has too much timing at peak torque and who knows what he has with skew rate.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Good thing he never said "locked out"

 

[RustyRatRod]

Good thing he never said "locked out"

Post #4 is clear.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Post #4 is clear.

Clear as Hürtgenwald...

 

[RustyRatRod]

Clear as Hürtgenwald...

Ifin you say so.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Recommended total engine timing

Don't know why the above thread isn't available anymore for posting, but anyways here follows some updates...

Lower the total timing to 34 degrees, and the MPH didn't change at all they remained the same.
Change to NGK BKR6E spark plugs, and gapped to 0.028". Former spark plugs were Champion RC12YC gapped to 0.030"

The car ran way cleaner, the misfiring at top end went away. There is only a light misfiring when shifting to 2nd gear.

30-32 total i feel would be the MAX.
28-30 is where I would have started.
I never saw the thread and what you were working with, now I get it.
Small chambers dont need much*

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Ifin you say so.

I dids. But yes, youre right.. he "locked" it.. and why? i didnt see an explanation for.
Seems like people are used to either stock 318s or 350 Chevys where you need a ton of timing. I know when you're breaking in a motor you can put a few more degrees into it doesn't matter, it's not under load per say but Always start at 30 is my thinking.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I dids. But yes, youre right.. he locked, and why i didnt see an explanation for.

I know locked can work in some instances. My friend has an old 60s slingshot dragster with a stroker 440 and he has the timing locked on it. But on the street or even a door car? I don't think so.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

If no part throttle is the ticket.. then locked is a chosen method. How fast is it all happening over the RPM range, you tend to make better power curving your advance over the range

 

[92b]

Just like the other thread. People don't know correct terminology so they just throw stuff around.

To the OP, here's what locked out timing is. When timing is locked out, that means it has Lets say in your case, it would have 35 degrees timing sittin in the driveway not running. 35 degrees timing started and idling. 35 degrees timing pulling out of the driveway. 35 degrees timing cruising down the road. 35 degrees timing at 120 MPH. in other words 35 degrees timing ALL THE TIME. If that's what you have, then your timing is locked out. If you have say 20 degrees initial timing at idle and 35 total, your timing is NOT locked out. Do you understand? So tell us which it is. Is it locked out or not?

This is just my opinion but I don’t think defining locked timing as being 35 at idle and everywhere else is an accurate way to describe it. Locked timing most of the time will have it's own curve. The link shows a typical locked hei from 1200 rpm idle up to about 5500 rpm. Total of 8 degrees of timing retard. Most retard occurs before about 4000 rpm. Edit. When I said typical I should add that it seems like hei distributors are some of the worst offenders. And this one is maybe slightly worse than the average.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

This is just my opinion but I don’t think defining locked timing as being 35 at idle and everywhere else is an accurate way to describe it. Locked timing most of the time will have it's own curve. The link shows a typical locked hei from 1200 rpm idle up to about 5500 rpm. Total of 8 degrees of timing retard. Most retard occurs before about 4000 rpm.

He also mentioned digital MSD. So does that have it's own advance curve kind of like fi injection where you lock the distributor out and it controls the timing curve on its own with the user setting the initial in the computer..? I never run a digital MSD