Valve Seat Cutters

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gzig5

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I've got a Sioux valve grinder machine as well as the valve seat stones, guides, driver and various attachements. I need to get some larger stones to do 2.02 intakes. Just for fooling around on my junk and maybe occasionally for a friend. Would this set of steel cutters be a good accompaniment for that if the diameters and angles are what I'd need? I assume these would rough the seat in and then would either finish with a stone and/or lap the valve? I've never done this before but I got a good deal on the setup and I like tools. I've seen new import sets on ebay that look like they have brazed carbide teeth. Price is more than double for the ebay stuff but I don't want to buy something that isn't useful.

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What do you have to drive them? It needs to be something slow.
 
RustyRatRod said:
What do you have to drive them? It needs to be something slow.
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I've got the motor used to drive the valve seat stones on the arbors. If that is too fast I have variable speed drills or can do by hand. I hand ream rifle barrel chambers to less than .0002" runout and inside .001" for headspace so I'm familiar with the process requirements to keep things straight.
I'm not too worried about holding or driving them, but more how and when in the process you would use the steel cutters versus a stone. Like I said, never done it before. I'm sure a stone will cut a new size seat and whatever angle, but maybe the steel cutter roughs it in faster and you don't need course and fine stones? Guy is asking $100 for the steel setup but I need to find out sizes and angles. I've got some 318/360 heads and a set of big valve J-heads I want to play with.
 
David Vizard an accomplished engineer heavy emphasis on cylinder head tech. has recommended a 60 degree throat cut 45 degree seat cut and 30 degree transition into combustion chamber. keeping a 45 degree seat cut at .050 thickness
 
gzig5 said:
I've got the motor used to drive the valve seat stones on the arbors. If that is too fast I have variable speed drills or can do by hand. I hand ream rifle barrel chambers to less than .0002" runout and inside .001" for headspace so I'm familiar with the process requirements to keep things straight.
I'm not too worried about holding or driving them, but more how and when in the process you would use the steel cutters versus a stone. Like I said, never done it before. I'm sure a stone will cut a new size seat and whatever angle, but maybe the steel cutter roughs it in faster and you don't need course and fine stones? Guy is asking $100 for the steel setup but I need to find out sizes and angles. I've got some 318/360 heads and a set of big valve J-heads I want to play with.
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Yeah, that's high rpm. To use those type cutters needs to be low rpm. I don't know the exact spec, but much lower than what stones use.
 
Speedy Pedi said:
David Vizard an accomplished engineer heavy emphasis on cylinder head tech. has recommended a 60 degree throat cut 45 degree seat cut and 30 degree transition into combustion chamber. keeping a 45 degree seat cut at .050 thickness
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Thats a great valve job for 1976 stuff. There is far better stuff out there today.
 
$100 is a good price for that box. Just one piece will cost you over $100. I would jump on it if you have a use for it.

Tom
 
David visard said that the transitions are 15° increments did he found from his investigation generally perform the best, there are some variations on it but generally speaking that's the numbers 60 45-30 °, he's got some great YouTube tutorials that go into great detail some of it way over my head for sure. But he's responsible for quite a number of potent designs he was the one involved in the redesign of the early Edelbrock aluminum performer heads
 
Build a 30 and a 60* stone to bridge the gaps. Here is the instructions from a kit. You use a hand tool or something to run through the top of the stem and turn it back and forth by hand. Light pressure.

s-l1600 (80).jpg
 
gzig5 said:
I've got a Sioux valve grinder machine as well as the valve seat stones, guides, driver and various attachements. I need to get some larger stones to do 2.02 intakes. Just for fooling around on my junk and maybe occasionally for a friend. Would this set of steel cutters be a good accompaniment for that if the diameters and angles are what I'd need? I assume these would rough the seat in and then would either finish with a stone and/or lap the valve? I've never done this before but I got a good deal on the setup and I like tools. I've seen new import sets on ebay that look like they have brazed carbide teeth. Price is more than double for the ebay stuff but I don't want to buy something that isn't useful.
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I would not buy them. Just buy the stones you need for the Sioux. You can cut any angle you want on the stone. Some of my stones have an angle added to the top of the stone so I make different top cuts by flipping the stones on the holder.
 
Speedy Pedi said:
David Vizard an accomplished engineer heavy emphasis on cylinder head tech. has recommended a 60 degree throat cut 45 degree seat cut and 30 degree transition into combustion chamber. keeping a 45 degree seat cut at .050 thickness
Click to expand...

Those angles may be good for SBC or some aftermarket heads but that is a very rough simplification. The Chrysler Racing Manuals call for 15* top, 45* seat, and 70* bottom angles for a SBM. 0* top, 45* seat, and 70* bottom angles for BBM. Those were recommended if limited to three angles. If you listen to "Class" racers, they will give different angles depending on the head casting. Those are the guys to listen to.
 
66fs said:
Those angles may be good for SBC or some aftermarket heads but that is a very rough simplification. The Chrysler Racing Manuals call for 15* top, 45* seat, and 70* bottom angles for a SBM. 0* top, 45* seat, and 70* bottom angles for BBM. Those were recommended if limited to three angles. If you listen to "Class" racers, they will give different angles depending on the head casting. Those are the guys to listen to.
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I don't see where anyone posted the angles of the cutters in that box. Most come standard with 15* 45* and 75* but that box is pretty small for that many cutters. One that size a lot of times comes with 5 or 6. There may be angles other than 15, 45 and 75* in that box. I have 30's* and a 20* cutter along with the 15, 45 and 75*. One of those may be 30* as you could buy nearly anything you wanted individually.

The one to the far left in the second row looks like it could be a 30* cutter.
 
Dmopower said:
I don't see where anyone posted the angles of the cutters in that box. Most come standard with 15* 45* and 75* but that box is pretty small for that many cutters. One that size a lot of times comes with 5 or 6. There may be angles other than 15, 45 and 75* in that box. I have 30's* and a 20* cutter along with the 15, 45 and 75*. One of those may be 30* as you could buy nearly anything you wanted individually.

The one to the far left in the second row looks like it could be a 30* cutter.
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yeah gotta box like that and its got a lot more cutters and with more angles and the peices to work the cutters by hand as well, ant ever used them yet....DWB
 
dirty white boy said:
yeah gotta box like that and its got a lot more cutters and with more angles and the peices to work the cutters by hand as well, ant ever used them yet....DWB
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If you have a 60* or 2 you're not going to use or anything between 45 and 75, Id be interested.
 
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