VIN # help

[adriver]

Oh, what the heck.
Here's the way I read that Federal thing.
Let's see. I'll try. Corrections are appreciated.
I'm sure I'll get them anyway.

I'll pull out and paraphrase the pertinent parts.

(a)A person who—
(1)messes with the VIN....bla bla.
Or
(2) with theft in mind messes with the VIN pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Bla Bla
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

So, let's leave theft out of it. Now what?

(b)

(1) Subsection (a) (The things said above in (a) ) of this section does not apply to messing with the VIN by a person specified in paragraph (2) (paragraph 2 comes next) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(We have already left theft out of this.)

OK so this means we have to look for a person that the above does not apply to.
That should come next.
Gee. Who writes this stuff? Oh I know. Never mind.

Here we go.

(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
( Paragraph (1) is what we just read. Come on and tell us who the above stuff does not apply too. We are waiting)


(A) A scrap processor...bla bla; That's not me..... on most days.

(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the messing with the VIN is reasonably necessary for the repair; (That probably qualifies most people under consideration, maybe?.)

(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and (State law. Who cares anyway? J. K.)

(D) a person who messes with a VIN pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by— (I think most people on this forum own the cars they are working on. Maybe I'm wrong.)

(i) the owner or his authorized agent; ( Let's include the owner's agent in for good measure. I can let someone else mess with the VIN then if I own the car? Cool.)

 

[jimharvard]

I deal with Missouri state patrol quite often. Most are my customers. I certainly do not need any warnings. You can sue anyone at anytime for anything. My point here is"YOU"are doing your best to make criminals of anyone that rebuilds an automobile and you then have the audacity to call it"hobby"!

mr. d5667...

with all due respect, YOU'RE not an attorney with 30 years of legal practice (in criminal law) I AM.

secondly, i don't CARE what your experiences are or have been with the "Missouri state patrol." first of all, the statute i quoted here is a FEDERAL law - it DOESN'T MATTER whether ANY "Missouri" state official wanted to enforce that law or not - the "Feds" could! AND, i'm SURE ALL Missouri state policemen are NOT equal in the way each views the Missouri motor vehicle code. you might very well be able to drive 50 miles down the road and get arrested by a "state patrolman" for doing the exact same things "your state patrol buddies" allow you to get away with. AND, there's ALWAYS the chance that a "tuff by the book" new state patrolman could get transferred to the barracs near your house. you might be very surprised if you run into "that guy."

third, i'm not trying to "make criminals" out of ANYONE - i'm simply quoting what the state and federal laws are regarding vehicle VIN numbers. if YOU or any of your friends want to engage in ANY practice regarding VIN numbers - HAVE AT IT!! you may not EVER hear from any state official or policeman about what you are doing. BUT THERE'S ALSO NO GUARANTEE YOU WILL NOT BE ARRESTED either!! and then GUESS WHAT - if that happens, the first person you will be crying to talk to will be AN ATTORNEY.

finally, i have NO idea why ANYTHING i say here on FABO should get you so upset. if you want to ignore laws you are free to live your life like that. there are LOTS of folks on FABO that ARE interested in engaging in their car "hobby" in a LEGAL and least stressful manner. in fact, one of the VIN number posts that i have provided several comments on the law has now had over 42,000 VIEWS!! i'd say there are a LOT of people here on FABO that are interested in information about VIN numbers.

so mr. d5667, please go on with your life and your "car hobby" practices in what ever ways you wish. however, in the future, if you are personally offended by some opinion you read here on FABO regarding an issue about "cars", perhaps you might consider tempering your anger.

 

[jimharvard]

Oh, what the heck.
Here's the way I read that Federal thing.
Let's see. I'll try. Corrections are appreciated.
I'm sure I'll get them anyway.

I'll pull out and paraphrase the pertinent parts.

(a)A person who—
(1)messes with the VIN....bla bla.
Or
(2) with theft in mind messes with the VIN pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Bla Bla
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

So, let's leave theft out of it. Now what?

(b)

(1) Subsection (a) (The things said above in (a) ) of this section does not apply to messing with the VIN by a person specified in paragraph (2) (paragraph 2 comes next) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(We have already left theft out of this.)

OK so this means we have to look for a person that the above does not apply to.
That should come next.
Gee. Who writes this stuff? Oh I know. Never mind.

Here we go.

(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
( Paragraph (1) is what we just read. Come on and tell us who the above stuff does not apply too. We are waiting)


(A) A scrap processor...bla bla; That's not me..... on most days.

(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the messing with the VIN is reasonably necessary for the repair; (That probably qualifies most people under consideration, maybe?.)

(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and (State law. Who cares anyway? J. K.)

(D) a person who messes with a VIN pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by— (I think most people on this forum own the cars they are working on. Maybe I'm wrong.)

(i) the owner or his authorized agent; ( Let's include the owner's agent in for good measure. I can let someone else mess with the VIN then if I own the car? Cool.)


adriver...

i think you've got it!! if the guy who OWNS the dart in this thread just wants to put a new dash in his car and put the ORIGINAL VIN number on the replacement dash - he should have NO PROBLEMS!!

 

[jimharvard]

just make sure the same vin number stays with the same car ....period.

I have a build thread here on fabo where I rally dash swapped my 68 dart ...I swapped in the entire dash assembly from a 68 barracuda. I took the barracuda vin plate off and sliced it in half because that barracuda is a parts car with no title and it is pronounced dead. I took my dart vin plate which matches my title and leads back to the body numbers via fender tag and riveted it to the barracuda dash frame and put it back in the car. It's still legit, No problem. ooooooooh come and arrest me , money hungry lawyers LOL

I asked my DMV before I did it and they said to document it with pictures, they basically told me that they can give a rats *** about some 50 year old piece of tin that doesn't even bring much revenue in taxes. They would just as soon see all these old cars crushed anyways.

You must be living in a rich state if you think your state has the time and man power to baby sit thousands of street rods built and restorations for cars they don't even really care about.

It is complaint driven so only time they will raise a flag is if someone is crying and claiming fraud and is willing to proceed with court fees to sue you which is why you document it with pics.

Enjoy hot rodding

rainy day..

i agree with you that the chances of any state official caring about a VIN on a 50 year old car are probably almost zero. and i also agree with you that the only time this issue is ever going to come up is if "someone complains." but having been involved in representing people "suing other people" now for some 30 years, it doesn't take much these days for someone to want to sue someone else. i think the ONLY time VIN number issues would result in a lawsuit would be if a car was sold and the buyer somehow later felt he had "been taken."

the only other thought i would submit is that i doubt if ANYONE would ever get sued over an A body mopar. however, if there are "mopar guys" reading FABO that are rebuilding hemi roadrunners or superbirds or 71 Cuda convertables - THOSE people SHOULD be careful in the way they handle the VINS on those cars. if you take a 70 Cuda 440 six pack 4 speed car to Mecum and sell it for $75,000 - and there was ANY "funny business" regarding the VIN on that car - you can take it to the bank that the seller is going to hear from a lawyer or "the police" within a couple of weeks.

 

[d5667]

mr. d5667...

with all due respect, YOU'RE not an attorney with 30 years of legal practice (in criminal law) I AM.

secondly, i don't CARE what your experiences are or have been with the "Missouri state patrol." first of all, the statute i quoted here is a FEDERAL law - it DOESN'T MATTER whether ANY "Missouri" state official wanted to enforce that law or not - the "Feds" could! AND, i'm SURE ALL Missouri state policemen are NOT equal in the way each views the Missouri motor vehicle code. you might very well be able to drive 50 miles down the road and get arrested by a "state patrolman" for doing the exact same things "your state patrol buddies" allow you to get away with. AND, there's ALWAYS the chance that a "tuff by the book" new state patrolman could get transferred to the barracs near your house. you might be very surprised if you run into "that guy."

third, i'm not trying to "make criminals" out of ANYONE - i'm simply quoting what the state and federal laws are regarding vehicle VIN numbers. if YOU or any of your friends want to engage in ANY practice regarding VIN numbers - HAVE AT IT!! you may not EVER hear from any state official or policeman about what you are doing. BUT THERE'S ALSO NO GUARANTEE YOU WILL NOT BE ARRESTED either!! and then GUESS WHAT - if that happens, the first person you will be crying to talk to will be AN ATTORNEY.

finally, i have NO idea why ANYTHING i say here on FABO should get you so upset. if you want to ignore laws you are free to live your life like that. there are LOTS of folks on FABO that ARE interested in engaging in their car "hobby" in a LEGAL and least stressful manner. in fact, one of the VIN number posts that i have provided several comments on the law has now had over 42,000 VIEWS!! i'd say there are a LOT of people here on FABO that are interested in information about VIN numbers.

so mr. d5667, please go on with your life and your "car hobby" practices in what ever ways you wish. however, in the future, if you are personally offended by some opinion you read here on FABO regarding an issue about "cars", perhaps you might consider tempering your anger.

No I am not an attorney. I am a simple auto salvage owner that deals with federal,state,ICC laws.

 

[adriver]

I been here before. I'm having deja vu again.
It's the elephant under the hood..... I mean in the room.
It's in ALL these VIN question threads.
If money was taken out of "it" I think there would be very few people that would make any bones about putting a different part on an antique car.
Maybe,when one get's down to the basic question, is the VIN the car or is the car the VIN?





FOUND!
Another one of the 11 1971 Hemi Cuda convertibles has been found under the bed of a brothel in Salt Lake City.
No one is quite sure how it got there.
But Mopar experts from around the country have verified it and after a complete concourse restoration it is sure to be featured in the “official” publications..
Noted authority Gail Gopher has inspected the car and suggested the use of only NOS parts. "I can absolutely assure all that this car is the real thing" he said.
The restoration is scheduled to begin as soon as a suitable doner car is located.
Also there is talk of launching a new website:
“for1971HemiCudaconvertableownersonly.com” which is expected to have as many as 11 registered users.