way too slow at drag strip! what should it run?

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318willrun said:
Sorry, a lot here doesn't make sense to me (I'm a little slow...lol). Your '60 foot times, and your 1/4 times and the mph are right on with each other. Another words, most 12.70 cars will run around 104 mph with a 1.8 60' time. It's not like you cut a 1.5 60' and ran a 12.70, or ran 114 mph at 12.70, but it sounds like your whole ET went hand in hand. And 4400 rpm's is what you crossed the traps???? Really?? With 3.91's and a 3500 stall at 104 mph??? This means you would be cruising 55 mph at about 1700 rpm's down the highway, with that converter and gears??? Is that tach way out of calibration causing you to over rev it by 1000 rpm's, thus causing the break up? And then, I've never had a car have a total advancement target of 28 degrees. I guess I've missed something there too. 37-44 degrees is where I've usually ended up. And also, 5 psi of fuel wouldn't cause it to pop and snap as soon as it hooked up, you wouldn't be out of gas that quickly. A lot here does not add up to me. BUT, I agree, the car should be well into the 11's, and 3.91 gears should get that done with ease. HMmmmmmm
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Well put. I also agree that the ET/MPH/60ft times are consistent.

The OP definitely needs to clarify some basic things then get back to us. He did say he 'timed it by ear' and he realizes that needs to be set properly. However, 28 degrees initial seems like a lot, with only 6 degrees mechanical. Might want to back down the initial a little to like 20 and set the total to 34-36. If it is at 28 initial, it's sort of close to being locked out right now, 6 degrees mechanical is nothing and having it all in by 2,200 seems like a long time to advance only 6 degrees.

A cam like that should idle around 900-1,000 rpm in park/neutral. Have someone hold the brake or chock the wheels and put the car in gear while idling. Get a vacuum gauge on it. Loosen the distributor and advance the initial until vacuum falls off then back it off 1 degree. Lock it down, re-set your idle speed to where you want and go from there.

I take saying 4,400 trap rpm as a product of only having 20 degrees of total timing. Hard to comprehend that one though.
 
Car isn't light for a SB car.

What are STK shocks? What's the valving?

Sounds like you need new leaf springs for starters. You shouldn't need any traction devices unless you go caltracs, which if I needed new leafs I would go that route. It will also help with your weight problem.

3:91 is a good gear to start with. Nothing wrong with those. But a 29.5 tire is slowing you down and is making that gear taller than 3:91.

Engine sounds like a good base but i'm unsure of your head flow. That cam is plenty big.

I'd be looking at roller rockers especially since you plan to RPM it to the moon.

Eddy's air gap intake is great but unsure of the quality of your knockoff.

YOu need a good mechanical secondary carb. Ex. HP series, Quick Fuel etc.

TRanny and convertor sounds good.

If you aren't hooking on a 10.50 slick something is wrong. Very wrong.

12.7 isn't slow for a heavy SB car. I don't think most people realize what it takes to run 13's, 12's, 11's 10's etc.

If it is cutting out, popping and not pulling you know there is more in your combo. Fuel and timing...get them fixed.

20 degrees total is low. Try 34 total and tune from there.

Check your whole fuel system BACK to front and see if it's up to snuff. ANd I mean from your outlet to the line size, filter etc. BACK to front.

I'd say you have a shot at low 12's if it runs right at your weight. Maybe high 11's.

FYI 4.56's with a 28" tire will turn about 6200@114. That's a high 11 timeslip. What do you want to RPm this thing to? Where does it make power. Have you had in on a chassis dyno or a engine dyno?



1.8 short time blowing the tires off? Hmmm....doesn't sound right. Mine wrinkling the sidewalls and dead hooked goes 1.74 shorts.
 
roccodart440 said:
Car isn't light for a SB car.



12.7 isn't slow for a heavy SB car. I don't think most people realize what it takes to run 13's, 12's, 11's 10's etc.

1.8 short time blowing the tires off? Hmmm....doesn't sound right. Mine wrinkling the sidewalls and dead hooked goes 1.74 shorts.
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I don't think 3200-3300 lbs is too heavy. I had a 360 with 340 heads (1000 dollar motor total), MP cam 284/484, 3.91 with 28 inch tire, in a 3200 lb dart sport go 12.9's at 104 with 1.8's 60 ft. My 727 loadflite (lol) tranny was free out of an mid 70's dodge truck. Never rebuilt, just thrown in as is. I did by a 10 inch TCI converter (3200 stall) I think we do know what it takes to run 13's, 12's, etc etc
 
If you are running down the drag strip, that's why you are slow. Next time try driving your car....
 
I guess I should be more clear on a few things.
#1 car was spinning off line when I did hook it just didn't pull like it should. While at the end of 2nd gear it started to lay down and stop pulling after in third gear it wasn't pulling at all then started popping and cutting out badly. I actually completely lifted and slammed back in it instantly and it still cut out badly! And would not gain speed at all. Actually think it was slowing down. Idk why the times add up for a steady run. Fluke maybe but that's what happened.

#2 I stated that I know why it ran so badly. It had NO timing to speak of what so ever and yes it was running out of fuel bc I found these problems at separate times. First found the timing and fixed it. Drove it and it ran like a scalded dog until the end of 2nd gear and third so I started checking more and found the fuel issue. Once I fixed it I drove down the interstate laying into it around 50 mph on the ramp and it came completely sideways on me and I held it down after on the road until it bounced on the rev limiter at 6500 where I had it set at the time. Yes I broke the speed limit by a hair. Who knows how fast and it doesn't really matter. All I know is that its running right now. That's not the question I'm asking. Yes there will be a lot more tuning on the track left to do.
I was basically saying when I ran it it was a crap run and showing what it ran the only time I ran it with the bad run.
I was just asking what a engine built like this now that I have it running right. I'm just curious what should be expected .
#3 this was a street setup hince the intake, carb, and gears. I am now turning it to a race only setup so I am changing things to optimize it for 1/4 only
#4 the chassis is changed as I stated. To a Dakota which us setup for track. Calvert mono Springs inside frame with caltracs, Calvert adj rear shocks, 90/10 front shocks and chassis has been lighten to right at 3000 lbs race weight with sb. So the barracuda old suspension is out if picture.
#5 I've never heard sb timing being 38-44.???? Anyways the 28° initial with 6° mec adv =34 total. Yes full lock out or almost full lock out timing is very common with drag only cars. There is no need to set a curve to come in say at 2500 when your launching at 3000+ its no different than having it already locked out. Race car only not street car.
#6 the 4400 was a typo meant 5400 even so the engine was cutting out through traps so it might not be correct rpm for that speed. And also no the tack is not off. Even if it was I have a rev limiter. So can't over rev. And no I wasn't hitting it and thinking engine cut out. And yes 5psi can be a problem. I've ran a stock 360 with 4b dry at 5psi. All I know is after I replace the fuel regulator and set at 7psi it didn't happen anymore.
Yes your right about the 4.88 and converter slip. I didn't even calculate that in. Thanks for catching that.

I guess I should have listed the engine setup the Dakota setup and asked what gears should I run and what ET's I should expect without telling all the history. Bc that's what I was really asking. I can see how my post wasn't clear on my questions. Thanks
 
moparmatt19 said:
I guess I should have listed the engine setup the Dakota setup and asked what gears should I run and what ET's I should expect without telling all the history. Bc that's what I was really asking.
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Yes & no Matt. I applaud you for giving all the info that you had. Way better then some questions that require members to feel like they have to "pull teeth" to find out what's going on.

What you're really looking for is a nice baseline for the Dakota to start out. So to generalize, you have a 3000lb vehicle with.....

A 400ish hp engine...
A 8" vert...(4500?)
4.88 gears
29" tires with room to grow.

Assuming the Dak has previously been down the track before...in a reasonable fashion...

I'd start with total timing in the 32*/34* range with the 50/50 mix.
Have adequate fuel volume (lines) with a steady 6lbs of pressure.
And start the rear tire pressure somewhere in the "midland" range.

At this point, the runs are just to gather data. Post your incremental's and maybe we can help you from there. I have no doubt that the Dakota has 11sec potential, and fortunately at this time of year, you have all spring/summer/fall to get it squared away. Good Luck, and keep us posted with your results. :thumbrig:
 
318willrun said:
I don't think 3200-3300 lbs is too heavy. I had a 360 with 340 heads (1000 dollar motor total), MP cam 284/484, 3.91 with 28 inch tire, in a 3200 lb dart sport go 12.9's at 104 with 1.8's 60 ft. My 727 loadflite (lol) tranny was free out of an mid 70's dodge truck. Never rebuilt, just thrown in as is. I did by a 10 inch TCI converter (3200 stall) I think we do know what it takes to run 13's, 12's, etc etc
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And he runs 12.7's. Too heavy, no, light, no.. This kind of proves my point. Your SB car weighs what my big block car weighs.

So many guys go to the strip with big expectations. SOmetimes they are unrealistic. My famous line at the strip for newbies. Racer "do you think it will run 11's?" Me "Yes. And all of the 12's, all of the 13's and maybe some of the 14's" Everything I've run at the strip had at least .5 to .75 of a second more left in from the 1st pass to it's best.

A friend has a Firehawk with a charger. IT make s 500 something at the wheels. My car makes 315 at the wheels. He goes 12's. I go 11's. There is more to drag racing than numbers alone.
 
Sorry if I seemed a little off in my reply last night. Had a very bad day to say the least. I appreciate everyone's comments. Anyhow I got the dizzy from a friend that ran it for about a month then he got a hell of a deal on a 6al-2 box and dizzy so he swapped it out. And I got this one from him. I have no clue why he curved it the way he did. I did not realize it until all this happened. Anyways I have it set now with 18° int. And 14 mec. Around 2500 total. I made my own limiter strips for this.
Rmchrgr thanks for that tip on setting the int. Timing with vac gauge. I will do that.
On the gears since I haven't bought any for the kota yet I will do as suggested. I will just pull the 3rd member from the cuda and use it until everything else is sorted out then see what I will need.
The fuel system on truck is 3/8 from fuel cell to carb. The engine has a mechanical Carter strip pump on it now. I might convert to a electric later on.
The Air gap nock off intake is junk!! Do not buy them. I had to mill the carb surface first thing bc it wasn't even flat then I had to open it up with die grinder to clear the secondaries to even open. Then after all that I had to put it back on the milling machine and mill the flanges bc it wasn't even square. Junk!!
 
More than likely, low 12's...high 11's are possible, but not probable...JMO.
 
You can buy my holley 750 dp from me. Built by biggs racing. Im going e85 and asking 450 shipped

moparmatt19 said:
I also agree on the carb.. But I basically got it from holley for free lol... I bought the 770 street avenger back in 2006 when they first came out. Well they had some metering block probs.. Long story short my carb ate itself from inside out after 8 months.. Well 8 yes later after it set in a box I found out holley had a warranty recall and would replace it for free... Well they did. Sent me a brand new one even after 8yrs later. So I used it... I'm going to get a HP series DP from them. I'm thinking 750 but maybe 850. Not sure yet. Also I ran the first run with 15psi in slicks then went down to 8psi no change. I know the suspension is crap on the 67. It was a work in process but the plans changed and the engine will go into the Dakota now.. I'm confident I will hook up with it. I'm just curious on what this engine should run when running correctly in a 3000lb chassis. Like what I should expect or work towards by tuning. And I'm curious on why the 4.88 with 29 would be too much? I'm asking BC I really want to know. By the calculated gear and tire it should be like 117mph at 6600rpms... That should be mid to low 11's which is what I want. Wouldn't that be using the whole engine HP to make the quickest time possible without waisted or unused rpm? If I hit the rev limiter before going through traps then I could go taller tire and would mean that it possibly could run faster right? This is race car 1/4 only.. What I'm asking or saying is if I went to say 4.10's as suggested and only pulling 5800-6000 through traps and the engine pulls hard to 6500-6600 wouldn't that be leaving some ET/ mph on the table to be had??
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moparmatt19 said:
Sorry if I seemed a little off in my reply last night. Had a very bad day to say the least. I appreciate everyone's comments. Anyhow I got the dizzy from a friend that ran it for about a month then he got a hell of a deal on a 6al-2 box and dizzy so he swapped it out. And I got this one from him. I have no clue why he curved it the way he did. I did not realize it until all this happened. Anyways I have it set now with 18° int. And 14 mec. Around 2500 total. I made my own limiter strips for this.
Rmchrgr thanks for that tip on setting the int. Timing with vac gauge. I will do that.
On the gears since I haven't bought any for the kota yet I will do as suggested. I will just pull the 3rd member from the cuda and use it until everything else is sorted out then see what I will need.
The fuel system on truck is 3/8 from fuel cell to carb. The engine has a mechanical Carter strip pump on it now. I might convert to a electric later on.
The Air gap nock off intake is junk!! Do not buy them. I had to mill the carb surface first thing bc it wasn't even flat then I had to open it up with die grinder to clear the secondaries to even open. Then after all that I had to put it back on the milling machine and mill the flanges bc it wasn't even square. Junk!!
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Well, sounds like you're going in the right direction.

Timing sounds like a good place to start. I understood that if you launch the car @ 3,000 then the timing is all in anyway, just seemed like an odd way to do it. If you're going to have close to lock out initial, just lock the thing out. As long as it does not kick back it's OK. Didn't you mention it had a start retard in it too?

In any event, might want to play with it a little and see what it likes best, the vacuum gauge will guide you with that but don't rely on specific numbers, just set it where it performs best. Once you get the timing set then start on the carb. You may have to adjust the timing one way or another when you get it to where it idles and launches best.

On the fuel system - I ran the Carter mechanical pump on my 340 and I think it was not able to keep up at the end of a run but I am not totally sure on that. I basically was just talking to some other racers and describing things, just not sure. I got 3/8" line all the way from the tank. On the 750 DP I had the floats set a little over halfway up the sight, 6.5 psi (regulated), .110 N/S but it still may have been running out of fuel. Do you have a fuel gauge you can watch during a run?

In lieu of that, an A/F meter is like standard practice these days. Pretty much the easiest way to verify mixtures accurately.

If you swap intakes you're kinda starting from scratch again, which might be OK. At least you have a baseline now.

Once it runs right then you get to work on chassis tuning and shift points!
 
1.8 short time blowing the tires off? Hmmm....doesn't sound right. Mine wrinkling the sidewalls and dead hooked goes 1.74 shorts.[/QUOTE]

Launched with a .083 R/T and completely sideways bounced off the rev limiter and was sideways passing the tree. I believe I would consider this blowing the tires off. And yes 1.8 60ft . I'm sorry this doesn't sound right but its what happened. I have no reason to lie. I mean I posted how shitty it was running. If I was going to lie I would have said it pulled the front tires 6" and cut a 1.3 R/T lol
 
Reaction has nothing to do with 60' times. 60' time only starts when the ties get out of beams, not when the green comes on.

Work on the tune up, fuel delivery first so it makes a full uninterrupted pass. Then work on getting it to hook. I've worked on cars where the tune up was costing 50+hp at launch. Once the 50+hp was found the car actually worked the suspension and hooked up better.
 
That looks like a decent run for 12.7. Your mph and 60 foot is around what it should be. If you say it was spinning and laying down at the top end then it makes it a bit odd.

Take car of the power loss and then address your traction issue though. Something seems off to me though if your spinning that bad with slicks with that combo. You may have answered this already but how much air do you run in the slicks?
 
1rst run u had 15psi and I was spinning pretty bad. I only had 1 more chance to run that night so I went extreme and lowered it to 8psi.. I was really loose at top in with that. But that was the only times on track. The suspension was awful and I new it was before I even went to track. The car wasn't ready at all. Like I said I just got the engine in the car and broke in the can only a couple weeks prior. The shocks I put STK as meaning stock. They are shocks from auto zone. The rear leafs was dearched badly. Wore slap out. I couldn't put the slicks on the car. The night before I took a couple leafs from a 1995 1500 dodge truck and put them with the old springs just to get enough height to run the slicks and take it to the track the next day. That's why it wouldn't hook up. It was rigged up crap lol. This car set for 9 years. I got the /6 running and a couple days after the valves stuck in the heads. So I junked the engine. I had this engine setting on a stand and I figured what the hell let's do it. So I made mounts and put it in. Got a front steering and suspension kit and rebuilt the front in and put cheap shocks on it just to have some on the car. Pulled my 8 3/4 out of my super bee and put it under the barracuda. And ran it.
 
The 2nd run which is that slip my dad said he thought I completely let out of it at the end of the track. He said he could actually see the car lay down. But I didn't. Its where it was cutting out. The first run I did bc I didn't know what was going on at first.
 
Who knows, I will just have to see what it does this year and go from there. Lol that's if the wife and 2 kids leave me any money to play with. I will post a new time slip when I run it again
 
My guess you shouldn't need less than 12psi in the tires. You'll have an even more wild ride with 8 psi in that size tire and another 8-10 mph.
 
318willrun said:
I don't think 3200-3300 lbs is too heavy. I had a 360 with 340 heads (1000 dollar motor total), MP cam 284/484, 3.91 with 28 inch tire, in a 3200 lb dart sport go 12.9's at 104 with 1.8's 60 ft. My 727 loadflite (lol) tranny was free out of an mid 70's dodge truck. Never rebuilt, just thrown in as is. I did by a 10 inch TCI converter (3200 stall) I think we do know what it takes to run 13's, 12's, etc etc
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Its not ..my '70 duster with the current 360 weights 3180 3450 with my fat *** in it..has gone 11.70's with 1.60 60' and blows the doors off most big blocks:D:D:D
 
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