Why not a 413 ?

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Garrett Ellison said:
I like the idea of the 413 build with the speed master heads. Im'a thinking if you wanted to build a budget turbocharger combination to motivate a large and heavy vehicle, this would be a very good way to do it. :)
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Almost 500 ft lbs of torque from the factory is nothing to sneeze at. It's been an informative thread!
 
Milling and steel strapping the main caps along with main studs along and about 1/2 inch of hard blok along with some very liberal piston and ring gap clearances would adequately strengthen the bottom end. The factory forged cranks are super strong, too. There have been some early to mid seventies motor home 413s found with HP2 (six pack) internals including the external balanced steel crank.
 
the "sentrys" at post #17/18 are correct. i bought 2 sets of pistons for 426 years ago. 1 mw 13.5 and other 11.0. could not find block. used 413 bored .070(i think) 426/396 /454 rings, 906 heads w/312/.590 mp cam in 65 coronet sedan 6.71/10.71 car, all day long. we did flow on 2 sets of heads. both 906's. there is no appreciable flow diff between 2.14/1.81 and the 2.19/1.88. with 1.88, you have to notch the block. also larry shepard told us once that if building a 426, best to use 11.0 pistons as they will b better with 906 heads.
 
.030 over 413 egge flat top pistons, aerohead 452 2.14/ 1.81 292 bracket master cam,shumacher headers and 3.73 gears.
 
dukeboy_318 said:
meh. that is not exactly true. 413 pistons are about 10 bucks more a piece off the shelf than 440 pistons. and 60 on a set of 8 with similar piston specs as the 440s, just with a different bore size. This thru summit. The big factor is selection is limited.

413: View attachment 1715464992



440:View attachment 1715464995
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Find some off the shelf affordable forged pistons. I'll wait right here.

The 413 was a great engine. It got left behind in popularity when the 440 was introduced. It has an oddball bore size. To get to a standard 383 bore size, you need to go .0625 over, as the 413 bore size is 4.1875. To get to the 440 bore size you need to go out .1325 over. Those are hefty cuts, plus, why other than piston availability would you go to the stock 383 size? "I guess" if you were stroking a 383, yes, but there's certainly no room for error or an over bore at .625 over from standard.

They were great as the MAX WEDGE. They have a fantastic history. But spend on a custom forged piston when you can stroke a 440 with off the shelf parts? Not in this lifetime.
 
I feel more comfortable with the thicker 413 cylinder walls, I've seen a lot of 440s lately cracking cylinder walls or have pin holes.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Find some off the shelf affordable forged pistons. I'll wait right here.

The 413 was a great engine. It got left behind in popularity when the 440 was introduced. It has an oddball bore size. To get to a standard 383 bore size, you need to go .0625 over, as the 413 bore size is 4.1875. To get to the 440 bore size you need to go out .1325 over. Those are hefty cuts, plus, why other than piston availability would you go to the stock 383 size? "I guess" if you were stroking a 383, yes, but there's certainly no room for error or an over bore at .625 over from standard.

They were great as the MAX WEDGE. They have a fantastic history. But spend on a custom forged piston when you can stroke a 440 with off the shelf parts? Not in this lifetime.
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Well yes, but I’m saying that if someone had one laying around and wanted to rebuild it and use it, using cast pistons for a mild build, it can be done for not much more is all.
 
dukeboy_318 said:
Well yes, but I’m saying that if someone had one laying around and wanted to rebuild it and use it, using cast pistons for a mild build, it can be done for not much more is all.
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Dude i beat the snot out of this 413 with cast pistons! Sometimes shifting at 6grand, i took it from Racine Wisconsin to lacrosse Wisconsin and back sometimes hitting 80-85 mph humming away not one issue.
 
thesiren74 said:
Dude i beat the snot out of this 413 with cast pistons! Sometimes shifting at 6grand, i took it from Racine Wisconsin to lacrosse Wisconsin and back sometimes hitting 80-85 mph humming away not one issue.
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I’m not surprised. For most people, cast will do just fine. People get fancied a bit too much sometimes with forged goodies. Not really a bad thing but sometimes it’s overkill. But it’s also very intended use oriented.
 
dukeboy_318 said:
Well yes, but I’m saying that if someone had one laying around and wanted to rebuild it and use it, using cast pistons for a mild build, it can be done for not much more is all.
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Absolutely, 150% agree. They are good engines. They can be great for mild builds. Think of them as an under bored 440. ........and as far as power goes "really not much" under bored, either. Also, as long as you use a good quality cast piston, they will withstand small amounts of nitrous or small amounts of boost as long as you don't get crazy trying to lean it to the nth degree.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Find some off the shelf affordable forged pistons. I'll wait right here.

The 413 was a great engine. It got left behind in popularity when the 440 was introduced. It has an oddball bore size. To get to a standard 383 bore size, you need to go .0625 over, as the 413 bore size is 4.1875. To get to the 440 bore size you need to go out .1325 over. Those are hefty cuts, plus, why other than piston availability would you go to the stock 383 size? "I guess" if you were stroking a 383, yes, but there's certainly no room for error or an over bore at .625 over from standard.

They were great as the MAX WEDGE. They have a fantastic history. But spend on a custom forged piston when you can stroke a 440 with off the shelf parts? Not in this lifetime.
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Why not use the 4.25, 426w piston it is more common than the 413 pistons. Your not going to use 383 b block piston in a rb block. Unless you want very low compression that is. Yes you would have to bore it. So what; the 413 blocks are a thick wall casting.
I have an industrial 413, If I ever build it it will be a 426 when I get done with it. Unless I find oversize 413 pistons at a decent price that is.
 
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Jadaharabi said:
Why not use the 4.25, 426 piston it is more common rhan the 413 piatons. Your not going to use 383 b block piston in a rb block. Unless you want very low compression that is. Yes you would have to bore it. So what; the 413 blocks are a thick wall casting.
I have an industrial 413, If I ever build it it will be a 426 when I get done with it.
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Mostly because that .0625 cut is usually TOO big. The 413 has a lot going for it in that department though, because they are OLD castings which usually means they are thick. I used the 383 thing as example only with bore size. Sonic test it for sure......and I wouldn't do it unless it had a LOT of material. One bore size worth of "go no go" past whatever the cylinder thickness is ain't enough.
 
When I think big block I think nuts to the wall... I think I'm calling 440 source for a stroker kit I'm calling my local rebuilder and letting them know they're going to be prepping a 440 block for a stroker...
When you can get well over 400 cubic inch out of a small block why waste money not going next to the wall with a big block.. last time I checked this was the Race part of the forum..,
 
Just curious why bore size is the deal breaker. What does a big block chevy have for bore size? 4.250 in 427s and 454s and 396 was much smaller and they all make good power.
 
j par said:
When I think big block I think nuts to the wall... I think I'm calling 440 source for a stroker kit I'm calling my local rebuilder and letting them know they're going to be prepping a 440 block for a stroker...
When you can get well over 400 cubic inch out of a small block why waste money not going next to the wall with a big block.. last time I checked this was the Race part of the forum..,
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I hear ya but only if you have money for a stroker.
 
A friend of mine built a 426 hemi with an early 70’s 413 truck block and some of those stage V conversion heads.
 
thesiren74 said:
I hear ya but only if you have money for a stroker.
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I think I paid $1,400 for my stroker kit for my small block.. if I was going big block I would already have the $2300 in the budget... And a $500 block prep..
Think about what the Op has and what he's trying to accomplish...
no doubt in the end it would blow his budget but definitely get the time he's looking for..
 
j par said:
... I think I'm calling 440 source for a stroker kit I'm calling my local rebuilder and letting them know they're going to be prepping a 440 block for a stroker...
When you can get well over 400 cubic inch out of a small block why waste money not going next to the wall with a big block.. last time I checked this was the Race part of the forum..,
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Big blocks have more flow opportunity with their heads. My SM BB heads would swallow up my SM SB heads
 
jas0162 said:
A friend of mine built a 426 hemi with an early 70’s 413 truck block and some of those stage V conversion heads.
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Are they still selling those heads or did they go out of business? I inquired a couple years ago to their email and never got a response
 
I would love a 505 or 543 stroker but around here you won't touch one under 5 grand for a machined/assembled short block. I would assemble it myself but still don't have the funds.
 
thesiren74 said:
Just curious why bore size is the deal breaker. What does a big block chevy have for bore size? 4.250 in 427s and 454s and 396 was much smaller and they all make good power.
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It's not so much bore size as it is availability of a piston that fits the 413.
 
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