1972 Dodge Dart Swinger - tie rod issue - tubular subframe and many mods

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Lazares81

Lazares81

"Mopar: You're either with us, or behind us!"
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Hey guys I'm reaching out for help because I'm stumped and so are my local alignment shops.
I have a 1972 Dodge Dart Swinger, I have done a 360 small block swap with a QA1 tubular subframe, 73 spindles, QA1 tubular lower arms, rebuilt stage 3 firmfeel gear box, hotchkis tie rods,73 moog pitman and idler arm attaches from top of center link vs 72 lower attachment design, stock 73 center link, firmfeel 1.06 torsion bars, hotckis sway bars front and rear, PST adjustable upper control arms, hotchkis rear springs, wilwood front 11" disc brake kit, and rear disc brake kit.
The actual problem I am having is getting the alignment corrected properly. I have discovered that with a new pitman and idler arm installed to get rid of free play, the centerlink is not level anymore and from the driver side tie rod to spindle is level and even, on passenger side from center link to spindle the tie rod is angled downward slope. Causing the movement from side to side to not be even and the alignment to not be trued. I had this same center link and tie rods, before the subframe swap and engine swap, any ideas, could this be from the subframe being designed for a 72 and the idler arm and pitman arm needing to be the underside attached design? Or could this be from a torsion bar adjustment, per positioning.Ill upload pics tomorrow.
 
None of the people you paid for all those parts can answer that?
I seem to remember something about Idler arm position, but not sure what it was since it's been so long.
 
I think you're onto something with the 72 vs 73 stuff not "playing nice" together... geometry is off...
 
ScampMike said:
I think you're onto something with the 72 vs 73 stuff not "playing nice" together... geometry is off...
Click to expand...
Yea it almost seems like the subframe is designed for a 72 idler and pitman the way the 73 stuff looks when you bolt it on, QA1 has it labeled 72 in the catalog, and no one in the tech department/ or the sale department could give me a straight answer as to the frame being designed for use with 72 steering components or not. The only answer I've gotten is from hotchkis and firmfeel, saying that if im using the 73 idler pitman with a 73 centerlink it should work fine, vice versa if im using a 72 pitman and idler with a 72 center link it should be fine, regardless of subframe considering main diff in the subframe years is the engine mounts from spool mount and donut mounts differences, but that leaves the question why from the factory they switched the pitman and idler arm design and center link design when they switched k frames in 73???? I think QA1 engineering needs to readress this issue on the blueprint and recheck themselves lol kinda funny but it really wont be if i have to switch back to factory k frame.
 
Lazares81 said:
Yea it almost seems like the subframe is designed for a 72 idler and pitman the way the 73 stuff looks when you bolt it on, QA1 has it labeled 72 in the catalog, and no one in the tech department/ or the sale department could give me a straight answer as to the frame being designed for use with 72 steering components or not. The only answer I've gotten is from hotchkis and firmfeel, saying that if im using the 73 idler pitman with a 73 centerlink it should work fine, vice versa if im using a 72 pitman and idler with a 72 center link it should be fine, regardless of subframe considering main diff in the subframe years is the engine mounts from spool mount and donut mounts differences, but that leaves the question why from the factory they switched the pitman and idler arm design and center link design when they switched k frames in 73???? I think QA1 engineering needs to readress this issue on the blueprint and recheck themselves lol kinda funny but it really wont be if i have to switch back to factory k frame.
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if the 73 arm you're trying to use isn't working, have you tried a 72 pitman arm?
 
I don't have my book with me, but in the Mopar steering and suspension book there is a process to measure the drops at center link and tie rods. If there is more than 1/8" difference (don't quote that number as my memory isn't what it used to be) you shim the steering gear or slot the idler mount and weld a washer to get what you need. I thought I'd posted that on here some where. But I can't find it. I can repost but it may take a couple of days.
 
Dubob said:
I don't have my book with me, but in the Mopar steering and suspension book there is a process to measure the drops at center link and tie rods. If there is more than 1/8" difference (don't quote that number as my memory isn't what it used to be) you shim the steering gear or slot the idler mount and weld a washer to get what you need. I thought I'd posted that on here some where. But I can't find it. I can repost but it may take a couple of days.
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WOW THAT WOULD BE A HUGE HELP! FIRST TIME I'VE HEARD OF THIS! @Dukeboy I have tried to the 72 pitman and idler, but they will not work with my current center link, I dont have a 72 center link to use to try to mock it up. :-(
 
Actually and if anyone knows where i can buy a factory service manual for an early a body or download one, or should i order a chilton manual does it have that info in it?
 
Lazares81 said:
Actually and if anyone knows where i can buy a factory service manual for an early a body or download one, or should i order a chilton manual does it have that info in it?
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I will post it when I get home from work on the book and p/n. It may be the chassis book but I want to make sure. Think I bought it on amazon.
 
I always though or assumed a center link was symmetrical. At a general glance, both ends appear to be the same. A while back, a member with a different issue ( tie rod hitting header? Hitting oil pan? I forget ). Anyway... He found that the 2 ends aren't exactly the same. Switching the center link end for end solved his problem.
 
RedFish said:
I always though or assumed a center link was symmetrical. At a general glance, both ends appear to be the same. A while back, a member with a different issue ( tie rod hitting header? Hitting oil pan? I forget ). Anyway... He found that the 2 ends aren't exactly the same. Switching the center link end for end solved his problem.
Click to expand...
oh wow i have not tried that or compared that yet, very possible thats the whole issue
 
Here's the tie rod check from the Mopar chassis book.

IMG_2572.JPG


IMG_2573.JPG


IMG_2574.JPG


IMG_2575.JPG
 
wow thank you so much for that image upload! that is amazing information
 
I also have purchased this qa1 k member. I have installed it in my 68 dart with all the original 68 center link and tie rods as well as the 68 idler and manual steering box. My centre link also slopes down from the drivers side down to the passenger side.
With my original k member I spent time plotting the toe change and had to elongate the idler slot and shim the steering box to correct.
My car is a drag car so this was important. The car drove and handled very well so the efforts are worth it.
But now with the qa1 k member it looks like these corrections will have to be done again.
I called qa1 tech today and they did tell me the correct idler to use is a moog 7042 with is for a 68-72 a body, so it appears as though the
K member is supposed to use the earlier parts, but the geometry appears to be off. My idler needed a thick 1/8 washer under it to fit
Properly. This is all fixable but for what they are charging for this k member, I expected better.

Duane
 
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