360 la

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bill patton

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morganton,n.c.
hi guys...ive recently built a 79 360 la..030 over.. kb 107s..340 j heads 2.02..comp cam cca-cl20-600-4...486/473 lift,279/296 duration,,,edelbrock performer intake..625 street demon carb..headers..msd rtr distributor...royal purple break in oil..2000 rpm for 20 minutes...now 10-30 havoline with zddp added...727 trans....i cant seem to get this thing tuned at all...timing set at 10 degrees before...adjusted timing ..adjusted carb...idles bad....not like a good sounding cam...any ideas on getting this thing to act right?..its in a 74 dart...8 3/4 with 3.23's...
 
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With that thumper cam, it needs at least 20 degrees initial timing and probably 34 total mechanical advance all in at 3,000. Also, what spark plugs are you running?
 
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no...installed straight up...
Degreeing the cam is not necessarily advancing or retarding it, it is confirming that the cam timing events are happening when they're supposed to. It also eliminates the possibility of manufacturing errors, like the key slot not being exactly where it's supposed to be- something that seems to pop up more of late, either by the cam or the timing gear.
 
i went .028 on the top ring...i took the pistons to the machine when i had it bored..not sure on the skirt clearance..and it runs about 165-170 degrees..new aluminum radiator...dot to dot

001.JPG
 
First order of business is bumping the timing up. 227at.050 and a 107lsa needs way more then 10 degrees. Once you get the initial to a reasonable spot without pinging with the fuel you use you'll have to go in the dizzy and adjust the total at 3k ish rpm's to get that in the 36 degree range. Once that's takin care of you can mess with the carb if need be.
 
With that thumper cam, it needs at least 20 degrees initial timing and probably 34 total mechanical advance all in at 3,000. Also, what spark plugs are you running?

First order of business is bumping the timing up. 227at.050 and a 107lsa needs way more then 10 degrees. Once you get the initial to a reasonable spot without pinging with the fuel you use you'll have to go in the dizzy and adjust the total at 3k ish rpm's to get that in the 36 degree range. Once that's takin care of you can mess with the carb if need be.
The two answers above are what I would have said. I was just running the big 227 thumper in a 10.5-1 - 360 w/Edelbrock heads and the chink AG knockoff intake with a 600 AFB & headers.

Back that initial up to 20*’s and limit the total mechanical advance to the as stated 36*’s which is about that sweet spot of the stock iron heads. Use the black bushing. That’ll get’er done fur ya!
Champion RN12YC then. This should help get you started with your base and total timing.
Distributor starting point for a curve
Like it!
 
In my 360 tried rn12yc motor still pinged. Had timing set @ 18° initial and total 34 or 35. Cam is mopar 292 purple grind. 108° lobe separation. Advanced cam 6° @ the crank with kb107 pistons. Iron x heads. So had to change to rn9yc champion's. Now no ping and have vacuum advance hooked!
 
I assume since you're talking about the engine in the running sense that it's installed in a car. IMO from "here" the first order of business is to run a compression test and post those numbers. Until you do that, we're really kinda pissin in a fan.
 
Your bad idle is the 10* initial timing. Might need as much as 4 times that! Yes, 40*, not a misprint! That low initial timing is going to hurt not only idle quality but tip-in throttle response.
See below.

img027.jpg
 
The short answer is you need to degree the cam. It can be done fairly accurately IF YOU ARE CAREFUL by indicating off lifters without the pressure of valve springs "to get a close estimate." You MUST (if you have not) use a piston stop first, to verify timing marks are correct
 
FYI
the OP's cam installed at 103(split-overlap), looks like;
279intake/117.5comp/101Power/296Exhaust/73.5 overlap/Ica of 62.5
Whereas the 292/108 in at 106* looks like;
292 intake/108 Comp/104 Power/292 exhaust/76* overlap/Ica of 72
These two engines will have completely different personalities. and that's before you even look at the .050 numbers....................Jus saying.
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Given two identical 360 engines, at the same 10.7 Scr :
the Comp cammed engine might pump 164psi, whereas the
292/108 cammed engine might pump 147psi. whereas the
292 in my 367HO, in at 104, pumped ~177psi, @11.3Scr
But OPs engine with open chamber heads is not likely to to be a 10.7 engine. Perhaps 9.5 at best, which would put the pressure closer to 153psi
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BTW;
I ran that 292/108 in my 367/4speed/DD, for just under one year. I ran it from 100 installed to 108; in 4* increments. I tried really hard to love it. But it did not repay me. It hated 3.55s : top of First gear was 61mph, Second gear was 88mph, Third was 116. Cruising: 65 was a tic under 2900. So, I yanked it.
The next cam, with no other changes pumped 195psi. Now, that was really something! I was really impressed by the bottom end, but the top end was a lot softer than it had been with the 292. I retarded that cam, got 187psi, and the top end became acceptable.
Then I threw in the towel, got me an overdrive and 4.30 gears; and finally, all was well in the world; top of Second was 70/64 in First-over, and 65= 2700
I have never missed that 292 cam. Plus it sucked gas big time.
I was very sad when this little 270/110 cam dropped lobes.
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IMO
Some people say cylinder pressure is not important. I say
That's like having a wife, who has no interest in sex.
In both cases, all the parts are there, but they ain't put together right, and neither is a keeper.
That's my opinion.
 
Were those pistons nearly flush with the deck?
My 360 with those pistons was about 10.7:1 pistons were @ zero deck with 65cc heads and a .040 gasket.

Even if they are down in the hole you’ll likely have some pretty decent compression.

Get a compression tester, remove all the plugs, wire the carb so it is wide open. Measure each cylinder by rotating the engine 4-5 times for each cylinder. Let us know what your cranking compression is, I’d bet you are in the 180 -185 range.

my bet is you have high compression and your cam is working against the engine.
 
thanks for all the info guys...one issue is a collapsed lifter from comp...new one is one the way...after i get it replaced ill set the timing and mess with the carb..change the plugs out...ive driven the car about 10 miles since breakin..lol
gonna use the advice from you guys...much appreciated
 
In addition to what’s been said about the initial timing, it wouldn’t surprise me if that carb isn’t a great match for a cam that provides a low-ish pulsing vacuum signal.

Also, don’t try for oem idle speeds.
I’d be looking for 800 or so, in neutral, as a minimum.

A stock low stall converter can also cause in gear idle woes.

You didn’t say if you’re running headers or not, but I wouldn’t consider that cam to be particularly exhaust manifold friendly.
 
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