'69 Barracuda T56 swap, floor, cross member

[340sFastback]

While waiting for this 100+ degree heat to go away I decided to sand down and paint the 54 year old crusty gas pedal mechanism and install new pedal pad/bezel.

I did finish sanding down and seam sealing the underside of the floor pan and frame rails. Still need to remask underside of car. I plan to spray underside with Epoxy Primer this weekend. Once underside is in epoxy the floor pan replacement rust repair phase the project will be completed.

 

[340sFastback]

Finished masking up car. All surfaces underneath wiped down.

 

[340sFastback]

Two coats PPG epoxy primer sprayed on. Crawled wiggle around like an inch worm under there spray up with a suction detail gun. Many gun refills required its a lot of surface under there. But was able to get it laid out pretty good. Wore full face mask and respirator. And nothing bad got in my eyes.

Tip: put aloe skin cream all over entire body which makes it very easy to get paint off of skin. Reapply skin cream between coats of paint.

 

[Dartsun]

Looking great so much work being done.

 

[JDMopar]

That looks great! An old timey suction type spray gun is the best thing to use if you have to lay underneath a car to spray the bottom. It helps to take the suction tube loose and spin it 180 degrees, so it points towards the back of the cup instead of the front.

 

[340sFastback]

Dug the trans cross member out of the corner of the garage where its been sitting for months covered in dirt and dust. Roughed up surface real good with 180 grit sand paper, wiped clean, and shot two coats of Epoxy Primer on it.

Normally these ship Powder Coated but Modern Driveline had supply chain and/or labor shortage issues and was unable to get it coated and asked would I take it bare for $60 discount. They still list the ToddRon cross members as Out of Stock on their web site so still struggles over there.

 

[340sFastback]

Floor is done so decided to unmask the outside of the car. No dents, no scratches, no over spray. Somehow it survived the 6 months of major surgery in tact without incurring any damage.

I am really liking how the new floor looks inside and under the car. Well worth the effort.

Will be transitioning to the 6 speed installation phase of the project now.

 

[Rob_Mopar]

Dug the trans cross member out of the corner of the garage where its been sitting for months covered in dirt and dust. Roughed up surface real good with 180 grit sand paper, wiped clean, and shot two coats of Epoxy Primer on it.

Normally these ship Powder Coated but Modern Driveline had supply chain and/or labor shortage issues and was unable to get it coated and asked would I take it bare for $60 discount. They still list the ToddRon cross members as Out of Stock on their web site so still struggles over there.

View attachment 1716140074

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I talked with Modern Driveline a few weeks ago. They won't have them back in stock anytime soon. Low volume part, have to concentrate on the higher volume ones first. Was going to go with the ToddRon crossmember for my '68 Fastback, but looks like I'll have to fabricate something.

 

[DionR]

I talked with Modern Driveline a few weeks ago. They won't have them back in stock anytime soon. Low volume part, have to concentrate on the higher volume ones first. Was going to go with the ToddRon crossmember for my '68 Fastback, but looks like I'll have to fabricate something.

l was wondering about that. Checked the website the other day and saw the out of stock notice and wondered if they would ever stock them again.

 

[340sFastback]

I talked with Modern Driveline a few weeks ago. They won't have them back in stock anytime soon. Low volume part, have to concentrate on the higher volume ones first. Was going to go with the ToddRon crossmember for my '68 Fastback, but looks like I'll have to fabricate something.

When Modern Driveline told me they didn't have any I contect ToddRon on Facebook. ToddRon told me he expects Modern Driveline to supply them to Mopar hobbiest. ToddRon called Modern Driveline and a few hours later Modern Driveline called me and said they have 4 "unfinished" in the warehouse missing spacers and not powder coated. After a few weeks of bugging Modern Driveline they offered to sell me one missing the spacers and no coating for $60 discount which I jumped on.

For anyone who wants one contact ToddRon on Facebook. Because ToddRon told me if Modern Driveline is not going to make them as they promised then ToddRon is going to address that issue because they want the hobbyist to have access to the part.

 

[goldduster318]

Looking good so far. I think you will find you'll be cutting up a lot of the tunnel if you want to still have clearance to the transmission. I kept pie cutting and bending it back and then mergining it with the T56 tunnel patch for a Chevelle I bought. I do know that I can pretty easily get all the bolts out from under the car. I didn't want to do any type of cutouts because of water leakage/heat/fire risks. My opening is actually small enough I have to put the transmission in 3rd to drop it away from the engine. I had revised to using a 4th gen camaro throw out bearing and I had the thing out by myself in well under an hour, even with an X-pipe and long tubes.

When Modern Driveline told me they didn't have any I contect ToddRon on Facebook. ToddRon told me he expects Modern Driveline to supply them to Mopar hobbiest. ToddRon called Modern Driveline and a few hours later Modern Driveline called me and said they have 4 "unfinished" in the warehouse missing spacers and not powder coated. After a few weeks of bugging Modern Driveline they offered to sell me one missing the spacers and no coating for $60 discount which I jumped on.

For anyone who wants one contact ToddRon on Facebook. Because ToddRon told me if Modern Driveline is not going to make them as they promised then ToddRon is going to address that issue because they want the hobbyist to have access to the part.

It's good that ToddRon is going to make sure they are available. If they weren't, I'd just mention making a CAD model of the flat plates for this is easy enough and you could just send them all out to Oshcut, and weld them together yourself with a little patience.

I had bought mine from ToddRon directly, got delayed because of the powdercoating - at least at that time they powdercoated the top piece, which to me seemed totally unessesary, because I ground off about 80% of it anyway to weld. It's been in the car for 5 years now though. Good product because it's the only way to do the upper crossmember correctly, I see way too many people welding a piece of flat bar to their floor thinking it does something when I can literally bend that stuff with my bare hands. It has to be a 3D shape.

 

[340sFastback]

I think you will find you'll be cutting up a lot of the tunnel if you want to still have clearance to the transmission.

I book marked your installation a while back and have read it over many times because you did an excellent write up. I think its likely forward area of my tunnel will need to be enlarged. I think the tunnel rear off my cross member I am good there.

I am working on indexing the bell housing to engine while engine is out of the car. After that I will get engine in with trans bolted up and see what is needed to get that required minimum 1/4 inch clearance between trans and trans tunnel. I won't be surprised if I have to do a lot more cutting welding to get the trans to clear the tunnel.

My initial cuts were based on ToddRon installation instructions:

 

[DionR]

I book marked your installation a while back and have read it over many times because you did an excellent write up. I think its likely forward area of my tunnel will need to be enlarged. I think the tunnel rear off my cross member I am good there.

I am working on indexing the bell housing to engine while engine is out of the car. After that I will get engine in with trans bolted up and see what is needed to get that required minimum 1/4 inch clearance between trans and trans tunnel. I won't be surprised if I have to do a lot more cutting welding to get the trans to clear the tunnel.

My initial cuts were based on ToddRon installation instructions:

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So they were able to get the trans bolted up without removing any of the floor at the firewall? I understand they had to remove some later to match the new crossmember, but I would have though they would have had to cut a bunch out before even getting it bolted up.

Hoping to start on this in a month or so myself, so watching closely.

 

[72bluNblu]

Yeah I would suspect you'll need to do a lot more work to the forward section of the tunnel. I had to fold the entire pinch weld flat, and then even raise that section with some relief cuts to make adequate clearance to get at the bell housing bolts. Even still I cut a hole that I fill with a floor plug to access one of the bolts. The passenger side of the tunnel was the part that needed the most work on my car.

I also took the rear opening back further, and made the top section removable. Maybe not as clean looking, but I wanted to be able to pull and reinstall the transmission easily without having to do all kinds of gymnastics to get it done.

But even without the console installed it's not crazy looking once the carpet is in, other than the hole leftover from my 4 speed shifter there isn't much to look at, and the 4 speed carpet still fits easily over the modified tunnel. Some of the hump to the carpet on the left side is actually just how it's formed to clear the 4 speed hump that's not there, there's some space under the carpet and between the tunnel in this picture. It's since relaxed down a bit.

 

[goldduster318]

I book marked your installation a while back and have read it over many times because you did an excellent write up. I think its likely forward area of my tunnel will need to be enlarged. I think the tunnel rear off my cross member I am good there.

I am working on indexing the bell housing to engine while engine is out of the car. After that I will get engine in with trans bolted up and see what is needed to get that required minimum 1/4 inch clearance between trans and trans tunnel. I won't be surprised if I have to do a lot more cutting welding to get the trans to clear the tunnel.

It's possible, I would think the reverse lockout solenoid would get tight coming in and out. I was trying to merge it all in and have a floor contour that didn't have any real sharp changes so the carpet wouldn't bunch there since I don't have a real console.

I work for an auto supplier, but I do a lot of packaging work with the OEMs and usually they do parts at 20mm+ that move and 10mm+ for parts that don't. Now, we're talking production tolerances here so you can probably get by with a finger's width or 1/2" for most things. With the polyurathane mount the 1/4" will probably make it but it's tight.

So they were able to get the trans bolted up without removing any of the floor at the firewall? I understand they had to remove some later to match the new crossmember, but I would have though they would have had to cut a bunch out before even getting it bolted up.

Hoping to start on this in a month or so myself, so watching closely.

At best the pinchweld would have to be flattened out. IIRC I tried that and I didn't like it so I just flat out cut it off by cutting ahead of it.

 

[DionR]

I had to fold the entire pinch weld flat, and then even raise that section with some relief cuts to make adequate clearance to get at the bell housing bolts. Even still I cut a hole that I fill with a floor plug to access one of the bolts.

At best the pinchweld would have to be flattened out. IIRC I tried that and I didn't like it so I just flat out cut it off by cutting ahead of it.

I wonder how much the Holley G3 conversion mounts I am using will affect this since the motor is 1.75" forward of the LA motor location.

 

[72bluNblu]

I wonder how much the Holley G3 conversion mounts I am using will affect this since the motor is 1.75" forward of the LA motor location.

That would have a huge effect. The tunnel at the firewall is quite tapered, and you can see how the locations of the bellhousing bolts both to the engine and from the bell to the transmission end up in fairly tight locations with the stock tunnel. So, moving the whole assembly 1.75” forward should make a pretty big difference. I suspect you’ll still want to fold the pinch weld flat, but I doubt all the relief cuts would be necessary.

 

[340sFastback]

I work for an auto supplier, but I do a lot of packaging work with the OEMs and usually they do parts at 20mm+ that move and 10mm+ for parts that don't. Now, we're talking production tolerances here so you can probably get by with a finger's width or 1/2" for most things. With the polyurathane mount the 1/4" will probably make it but it's tight.

I think it gonna have to be a loose 1/4 inch clearance to be sure. Don't wanna get it all together then take it all apart cause need more clearance then everyone gets to say I told you so lol. I do run a Shumaker Torque Strap on driver's side and poly trans mount so that should help. But 500 torque engine things are gonna move. I am gonna need enough clearance to be sure no touching.

 

[340sFastback]

So they were able to get the trans bolted up without removing any of the floor at the firewall? I understand they had to remove some later to match the new crossmember, but I would have though they would have had to cut a bunch out before even getting it bolted up.

That is what ToddRon says in their instructions. But 72bluNblu, goldduster318, and two other members I have seen had to make their tunnels bigger to get adequate clearance. I haven't seen anyone get away with the min floor cuts like ToddRon shows, maybe someone has, but I haven't seen it, and its not likely I will get away with the min floor cuts either.

Keep in mind vintage mopar k-frames were very sloppy and body tolerances are fairly large on these old cars too. So maybe ToddRon got lucky and didn't need to cut as much floor out. Its gonna vary car to car. Only way to really know is fit it up in there and see.

I did minimum cutting on my replacement floor trans tunnel just to get the floor done because it was a can of worms repairing rust etc needed to get that part done done. Actual required additional cutting welding slicing etc I will be finding out once trans gets raise up, or won't raise up cause it hits the tunnel lol.....

 

[72bluNblu]

I think it gonna have to be a loose 1/4 inch clearance to be sure. Don't wanna get it all together then take it all apart cause need more clearance then everyone gets to say I told you so lol. I do run a Shumaker Torque Strap on driver's side and poly trans mount so that should help. But 500 torque engine things are gonna move. I am gonna need enough clearance to be sure no touching.

I have poly spool mounts and a poly transmission mount, as well as a Schumacher torque strap that's probably unnecessary. For me the biggest tolerances were required for install/removal, not so much keeping the transmission from rubbing on things when it shifts around. If you make the tunnel so you can get at the bell housing and transmission bolts and have room to connect the reverse lockout, VSS sensors or speedometer cable (T56 magnum) you should have plenty of room for movement under torque etc. Even with that additional room I still added a body plug for one of the bell housing bolts on the passenger side, as well as another one to get at the hydraulic clutch connections.

I wouldn't say either one of those is absolutely necessary, but, I wanted to be able to service the transmission without having to tear down the entire car or put it on a lift just to get at it.

That is what ToddRon says in their instructions. But 72bluNblu, goldduster318, and two other members I have seen had to make their tunnels bigger to get adequate clearance. I haven't seen anyone get away with the min floor cuts like ToddRon shows, maybe someone has, but I haven't seen it, and its not likely I will get away with the min floor cuts either.

Keep in mind vintage mopar k-frames were very sloppy and body tolerances are fairly large on these old cars too. So maybe ToddRon got lucky and didn't need to cut as much floor out. Its gonna vary car to car. Only way to really know is fit it up in there and see.

I did minimum cutting on my replacement floor trans tunnel just to get the floor done because it was a can of worms repairing rust etc needed to get that part done done. Actual required additional cutting welding slicing etc I will be finding out once trans gets raise up, or won't raise up cause it hits the tunnel lol.....

Yeah for sure, the body tolerances on these cars weren't great. And when you start throwing in aftermarket engine mounts and their tolerances things can look pretty different from one car to another.

 

[Sublime one]

Nice work!

I definitely understand the desire to have a smaller tunnel, but, it will not make any future work on the transmission easier. I went over the top of my crossmember with the tunnel, and there is still not much room to do things like check the fluid level of the transmission or attach the pigtails for the lockout, speedometer, etc. It will also likely limit your install/removal options, as getting to some of the bellhousing bolts is difficult enough with the tunnel the way I did mine, and I actually modified a few spots specifically so I could get at peripherals and bolts after install.

My philosophy on it is that I would rather have a larger tunnel and be able to access everything I need to service on that transmission than have a smaller one that looks better but requires dropping the transmission to get at anything

I agree, I made my tunnel oversized. Then FABO member @Frodee made a custom fiberglass center console for me. He rocks!

 

[340sFastback]

The one thing I have not seen yet is someone swapping a T56 into a Factory AC car. As you can see the heat ducts, covered in yellow tape, are only 1/4" or so from the floor. Heat ducts are steel and part of the larger housing not removable. If the tunnel has to be raised in that area I am going to be in trouble because there is no room there.

 

[Frodee]

I agree, I made my tunnel oversized. Then FABO member @Frodee made a custom fiberglass center console for me. He rocks!

View attachment 1716140552

Only reason I made you that console is because you did a fantastic job on building your car.
And a great friend.

 

[72bluNblu]

The one thing I have not seen yet is someone swapping a T56 into a Factory AC car. As you can see the heat ducts, covered in yellow tape, are only 1/4" or so from the floor. Heat ducts are steel and part of the larger housing not removable. If the tunnel has to be raised in that area I am going to be in trouble because there is no room there.

View attachment 1716140559

I think you’ll be ok honestly. If you look at my pinch weld I didn’t take the relief cuts all that far past the pinch, meaning that the area at the pinch didn’t change much. The bigger effect is past the pinch weld, so, rather than angling down and away it stays more flat.

It’s hard to tell from one picture of course, but even if you think about the tunnel coming straight out from the pinch weld I think you’ll have clearance

 

[340sFastback]

Time to get set up to index bell housing. Removed dusty dirty filthy disgusting plastic covering engine and pulled it out of the corner of the garage. Then had to dig around all the boxes of parts and find flywheel, bell housing, bolts, indexing plate etc. Took a while to find my magnetic base dial indicator haven't seen it in years but found it on a shelf. Watched a couple of how-to videos. Mating surface on rear of block has paint and surface rust so that needs to be carefully cleaned off. Started to get hot in garage and felt tired from pushing it over the weekend so closed up shop early.