Bent up stuff

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The coils touching together is bad right? (Sarcasm)

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Obviously the machinist ordered the wrong springs for me. He chose them and ordered them. At this point is he liable for the cost of the springs or am I hosed? He is a friend of mine, but I came to him as a customer. This is business and it costs me money and stress. I am not out for blood. I feel that I shouldn't have to pay for his mistakes though. He is supposed to be the professional.
 
You're just lucky that you didn't drop a valve and take out the whole piston, head, and possibly the cylinder/block with it.
I think the push rod length is wrong, (among a lot of other things) given your story.
They handed you some push rods and said "this is what you need" sounds fishy to me in the way of nobody checked clearances on anything really, and just threw some parts at it from a catalogue. Very unprofessional to say the least. HUGE red flag. Setting the valve lash by eye? Huge red flag. Remove the p.c.v.? Huge red flag. Valve to piston clearance over 3/8''? Bullshit. And a huge red flag again.
Forget about going back to them and trying to get parts, cut your ties with them professionally, and do it right yourself even if you have to spend $500 on tools.
Get your information and machine work done with KNOWN professional engine builders that specialize in Mopar engines. There are several on here.
Learn how to degree your cam yourself, and check all clearances yourself. It really isn't all that hard if you have the tools, just time consuming.
Just my 2 cents as usual.........
Tom.
 
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VonCramp said:
Got

Got to hand it to pro comp for having strong rockers at least. The way these coils are bound up you'd think that the rockers would've snapped in half.
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I wouldn't rule out any valve train damage after bottoming like that. Inspect it all.
 
Dartnut said:
You're just lucky that you didn't drop a valve and take out the whole piston, head, and possibly the cylinder/block with it.
I think the push rod length is wrong, (among a lot of other things) given your story.
They handed you some push rods and said "this is what you need" sounds fishy to me in the way of nobody checked clearances on anything really, and just threw some parts at it from a catalogue. Very unprofessional to say the least. HUGE red flag. Setting the valve lash by eye? Huge red flag. Remove the p.c.v.? Huge red flag. Valve to piston clearance over 3/8''? Bullshit. And a huge red flag again.
Forget about going back to them and trying to get parts, cut your ties with them professionally, and do it right yourself even if you have to spend $500 on tools.
Get your information and machine work done with KNOWN professional engine builders that specialize in Mopar engines. There are several on here.
Learn how to degree your cam yourself, and check all clearances yourself. It really isn't all that hard if you have the tools, just time consuming.
Just my 2 cents as usual.........
Tom.
Click to expand...
We didn't order from a catalog or anything like that. I saved some money. Decided I wanted a new set of aluminum heads, intake, and carb. Pro Comp sold me a complete package for $1200. Shortly after I installed everything, the flat tappet cam went out. So, I then bought my Comp Cams solid roller cam and lifters set. The machine shop (buddy) called up Comp Cams and they sent us these springs. Obviously something is wrong due to the extreme bind in the coils on springs. I personally have never messed with valve train geometry before. This is all new to me. I never knew about coil bind and pushrod length. I am doing my best to learn here. Considering my poor math skills in school, I am amazed I even know what little I do. As for tools, you just stated buy some tools. Could you be more specific? About the only thing I can think of that I don't own is a valve spring compressor. I have a torque wrench, 60 gal Craftsman Compressor, all wrench sizes, all socket sizes, die grinders, bench grinder, mig welder, screwdrivers, hose cutter, feeler gauges, etc. Where I went wrong was trusting the wrong person at wrong machine shop. I will definitely be using a different one from now on.
 
70aarcuda said:
COMP Cams Valve Springs 914-16

Installed Height (in):1.800 in.

Seat Pressure at Installed Height (lbs):165 lbs.

Open Height (in):1.200 in.

Open Pressure (lbs):385 lbs.

at .600 lift you are at coil bind....depending on installed height...
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Here are the facts on your springs if these are the part number you have. And like I mentioned earlier, who knows what the spring height they were set up to.

VonCramp said:
You are right. I checked driver's side this morning because it is still assembled. The springs are literally touching with no clearance. All pushrods are bent. I try to upload a photo but FABO isn't working correctly on the ol' iPad.
Click to expand...
See your learning already!
 
VonCramp said:
We didn't order from a catalog or anything like that. I saved some money. Decided I wanted a new set of aluminum heads, intake, and carb. Pro Comp sold me a complete package for $1200. Shortly after I installed everything, the flat tappet cam went out. So, I then bought my Comp Cams solid roller cam and lifters set. The machine shop (buddy) called up Comp Cams and they sent us these springs. Obviously something is wrong due to the extreme bind in the coils on springs. I personally have never messed with valve train geometry before. This is all new to me. I never knew about coil bind and pushrod length. I am doing my best to learn here. Considering my poor math skills in school, I am amazed I even know what little I do. As for tools, you just stated buy some tools. Could you be more specific? About the only thing I can think of that I don't own is a valve spring compressor. I have a torque wrench, 60 gal Craftsman Compressor, all wrench sizes, all socket sizes, die grinders, bench grinder, mig welder, screwdrivers, hose cutter, feeler gauges, etc. Where I went wrong was trusting the wrong person at wrong machine shop. I will definitely be using a different one from now on.
Click to expand...
I also need to clarify that the machinist did use feeler gauges on the valve lash. However, he only seemed to eyeball the opening and closing of the valves. He didn't really check to make sure the valves were exactly in the correct range during their operating sequence when adjusting the lash. My pushrods are 7.250. Rockers are 1.6. He knew those factors going into this operation. My biggest concern is how the hell did he miss the coil bind while adjusting the valve lash???
 
VonCramp said:
We didn't order from a catalog or anything like that. I saved some money. Decided I wanted a new set of aluminum heads, intake, and carb. Pro Comp sold me a complete package for $1200. Shortly after I installed everything, the flat tappet cam went out. So, I then bought my Comp Cams solid roller cam and lifters set. The machine shop (buddy) called up Comp Cams and they sent us these springs. Obviously something is wrong due to the extreme bind in the coils on springs. I personally have never messed with valve train geometry before. This is all new to me. I never knew about coil bind and pushrod length. I am doing my best to learn here. Considering my poor math skills in school, I am amazed I even know what little I do. As for tools, you just stated buy some tools. Could you be more specific? About the only thing I can think of that I don't own is a valve spring compressor. I have a torque wrench, 60 gal Craftsman Compressor, all wrench sizes, all socket sizes, die grinders, bench grinder, mig welder, screwdrivers, hose cutter, feeler gauges, etc. Where I went wrong was trusting the wrong person at wrong machine shop. I will definitely be using a different one from now on.
Click to expand...
Add a degree wheel and a dial indicator to your shopping list. Must haves for assembling an engine..
 
VonCramp said:
I also need to clarify that the machinist did use feeler gauges on the valve lash. However, he only seemed to eyeball the opening and closing of the valves. He didn't really check to make sure the valves were exactly in the correct range during their operating sequence when adjusting the lash. My pushrods are 7.250. Rockers are 1.6. He knew those factors going into this operation. My biggest concern is how the hell did he miss the coil bind while adjusting the valve lash???
Click to expand...
Because you give him to much credit for being a machinist! Learn from this and move on to the problems at hand. There are a lot of knowledgeable engine people on here to teach you.
 
Dartnut said:
You're just lucky that you didn't drop a valve and take out the whole piston, head, and possibly the cylinder/block with it.
I think the push rod length is wrong, (among a lot of other things) given your story.
They handed you some push rods and said "this is what you need" sounds fishy to me in the way of nobody checked clearances on anything really, and just threw some parts at it from a catalogue. Very unprofessional to say the least. HUGE red flag. Setting the valve lash by eye? Huge red flag. Remove the p.c.v.? Huge red flag. Valve to piston clearance over 3/8''? Bullshit. And a huge red flag again.
Forget about going back to them and trying to get parts, cut your ties with them professionally, and do it right yourself even if you have to spend $500 on tools.
Get your information and machine work done with KNOWN professional engine builders that specialize in Mopar engines. There are several on here.
Learn how to degree your cam yourself, and check all clearances yourself. It really isn't all that hard if you have the tools, just time consuming.
Just my 2 cents as usual.........
Tom.
Click to expand...
Dartnut just saved me a lot of typing(thank God). I agree with everything he just said! Especially you being lucky it didn't drop a valve!
 
Thanks guys! I will definitely do as advised. I can't believe what an expensive nightmare this turned out to be. I will pull the heads and take them to a more reputable machine shop. There goes my $200 cometic head gaskets. Poor motor has been through hell. It deserves better. I sought out advice and unfortunately it was from the wrong machine shop. I have come out wiser and with a lighter wallet. Thanks to everyone who has helped me here!
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Dartnut just saved me a lot of typing(thank God). I agree with everything he just said! Especially you being lucky it didn't drop a valve!
Click to expand...
The moment I realized my friend was full of **** is when he said a vacuum advance does continue to operate under wide open throttle. I then asked what's the point of a curve kit then and at what point does the timing stop advancing? He just glared at me. I literally felt reality wash over me like a black curtain. Then I died a little on the inside as I watched metaphorical dollar bills flutter away into the sky.
 
VonCramp said:
The moment I realized my friend was full of **** is when he said a vacuum advance does continue to operate under wide open throttle. I then asked what's the point of a curve kit then and at what point does the timing stop advancing? He just glared at me. I literally felt reality wash over me like a black curtain. Then I died a little on the inside as I watched metaphorical dollar bills flutter away into the sky.
Click to expand...
Dude at least you can maintain a good sense of humor!
 
VonCramp said:
Here is the spring info. I used 7.250 on pushrods. O.D. 1.525
I.D 1.100
inside I.D. .789
Seat Load 195 @ 1.850
Open Load .560. @ 1.225
Coil bind 1.113"
Spring Rate 560
Click to expand...

what you have listed here is not the 914 springs,,,the 914 should have been used for a solid roller...not enough seat or open spring pressure...917 yes,,,914 no
 
70aarcuda said:
what you have listed here is not the 914 springs,,,the 914 should have been used for a solid roller...not enough seat or open spring pressure...917 yes,,,914 no
Click to expand...
Okay. Just to make extra sure I will call Comp Cams and give them my info.
 
not sure if this has been mentioned - a machinist and a mechanic are not the same thing - - many people are both... and many others are one OR the other. But just because the guy can run a lathe or a CNC machine etc., doesn't automatically qualify him to tune or set up your car for you - - and vise versa. Tough way to learn a lesson.. and I'm really glad to see the damage isn't a lot worse!! Back up - take a deep breath and forge forward. THE hardest part of building a car is the last 10% - you start to get all jacked up and just want it done, get it running and on the road.. and miss one friggin' thing... BOOM.. suddenly you're back to where you were 6 weeks ago... :BangHead::BangHead:. Chin up, chest out - you go this, lots of great advice and info in this thread!
 
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