My "new" '74 Duster- or why I need a project like a hole in the head

[DionR]

For the calipers, I actually wish I had access to a milling machine and a lathe because the viper calipers seem to be quite spendy and there are MANY fairly priced Porsche, etc calipers available. That and I doubt I can mount them to the rear with the hotchkis UCAs.

No idea on the interference with the Hotchkis control arms, but I did up a mount for 4 piston Brembo calipers and 14.2" rotors from a late model Challenger using flat plates that I had SendCutSend cut for me. No milling machine required.

Scat Pack 4 piston Brembo calipers and rotors

Fell down a rabbit hole and might have climbed out finally. Years ago I built a brake swap kit for myself using ’98 Mustang Cobra rotors, C5 Vette calipers and a simple flat plate to bolt it all up to a stock disk brake spindle. Been on the car for several years now and seems to work well...

www.forabodiesonly.com

The Scat Pack calipers are $120-$150 each depending on what you buy, but they are kind of a funky design. At the same time, the last couple of year the calipers were a full billet style, more like the traditional Brembo design and use the same mount. So I could swap to those later if I wanted to change it up. And the 6 piston Brembo's bolt on, but with a 15.7" rotor, which I would bet would require and even bigger wheel to fit.

I went with the Challenger rotor because it was deeper than the 14" Mustang rotor and made finding a wheel that fit easier as the caliper wasn't going to stick out as far. At the same time, when I went looking for an 18" wheel I used a 2009 GT500 as my model, so in the end I could have done something similar using Mustang parts instead. I suspect that the Mustang caliper would have made for a much simpler caliper mount bracket. And there isn't much difference in price between the Mustang and Challenger parts.

Plus, there is a guy already making the parts to do a 14"/Brembo swap onto Mopars.

 

[goldduster318]

I kind of wanted to do 2 things simulatenously if I did that - get some opposed piston calipers, but keep the 330mm rotor size so my spare will fit, and not spend a ton of money. The craziest calipers that fit this are for an 04-10 VW Toureg or Porsche Cayenne, the 17Z versions are made for a 330mm rotor and are 6 pot brembos. There is an 18Z version that was on the turbo cars that's even bigger at 350mm. You can buy a pair easy for $250 or less on the 17Z. Piston area is about 15% more than a cobra brake set.
17Z

18Z

I'm also not sure about getting that to clear varius suspension stuff like the tie rod / strut rod / sway bar. On the original applicaiton they are front mount, however, it seems possible to swap the crossover tube and bleeders side to side on the calipers and do rear mount, so the leading and trailing pistons are still in the proper orientation. Would also need a 32mm wide brake disk with enough offset to clear the wheels.

I could CAD model all this stuff if I had all the dimensions for everything handy already, but I don't.

The Hotchkis arms hit everything on the back unfortunately, you can see the arm is just so low back there and given that this is drooped out, it just crams into it. They'll even hit the stock calipers if they are rear mounted.

 

[DionR]

I kind of wanted to do 2 things simulatenously if I did that - get some opposed piston calipers, but keep the 330mm rotor size so my spare will fit, and not spend a ton of money. The craziest calipers that fit this are for an 04-10 VW Toureg or Porsche Cayenne, the 17Z versions are made for a 330mm rotor and are 6 pot brembos. There is an 18Z version that was on the turbo cars that's even bigger at 350mm. You can buy a pair easy for $250 or less on the 17Z. Piston area is about 15% more than a cobra brake set.
17Z
View attachment 1716151826

View attachment 1716151823
18Z

I'm also not sure about getting that to clear varius suspension stuff like the tie rod / strut rod / sway bar. On the original applicaiton they are front mount, however, it seems possible to swap the crossover tube and bleeders side to side on the calipers and do rear mount, so the leading and trailing pistons are still in the proper orientation. Would also need a 32mm wide brake disk with enough offset to clear the wheels.

I could CAD model all this stuff if I had all the dimensions for everything handy already, but I don't.

The Hotchkis arms hit everything on the back unfortunately, you can see the arm is just so low back there and given that this is drooped out, it just crams into it. They'll even hit the stock calipers if they are rear mounted.
View attachment 1716151827

I wanted to keep a 13" rotor and 17" wheels originally. But both the Mustang and Scat Pack calipers were too big and crashed with the mounting ears on the spindle. I even tried it with drum brake spindles and couldn't make it work. The Porsche/VW caliper does look shallower, so maybe it would work? But with the SP caliper, I had to go up to 14.2" caliper to just barely get them to fit.

In regards to dimensions, I didn't have any initially either. I grabbed images off RockAuto that looked to be close to straight on and then traced them. Then I used the mounting hole distance to scale them. Did the same thing with a brake pad and nested them so I could get a rough idea of how they might relate to the spindle. I did have a good layout of the spindle already from when I did my C5 caliper mounts, so that helped.

This is where I started:

And then the caliper with the spindle:

These are just rough layouts to see if the idea works. I wouldn't create a mounting plate from this. But when I moved up to a 14.2" rotor, I could see that it might work, at which time I bought one caliper and a set of pads so I could take real measurements and start making a true layout.

This doesn't mean there aren't other issue that could come up. I rotated the caliper about as much as I could to get the upper hole to clear the upper spindle hole and was worried that the lower ball joint wouldn't bolt on, which is where the 3D printer came in clutch.

Sure was happy to see the clearance there. At this point, I could still return the caliper and would have only been out the cost of the pads and shipping to return the caliper. But it all seemed to check out so I went forward from there.

This is the process I used to go from no functional dimensions to metal on the table to bolt them up.

In regards to the rotor, the one Dr. Diff uses is a 32mm thick rotor, and it is really deep so it would help with wheel spokes clearing the fixed caliper. But it won't help with clearing the strut rod or sway bar on a front mount, nor the upper control arm on a rear mount.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the kind words! Although to be completely honest even my car is pretty heavily based on a few earlier builds, like Steve @autoxcuda 's barracuda, or @72BBSwinger 's "blue blur" Dart. Some of it was definitely a "next step" from my '72 Challenger build, although that one took cues from the Green Brick, and some help from Firm Feel and @DoctorDiff.

That Duster is awesome @JBrian , and it's great to see you getting it out there at the events and kicking ***. One of these years I'm going to have to actually start taking mine to stuff, it always seems like I'm at work for any of the big events though. I may have to paint it eventually too!

Not a lot in the update department, at least not in terms of my car. My new shop building has been the priority lately, although that's getting a lot closer. Had 30 yards of concrete put down a couple weeks ago, with a new 30'x42' building on the way. I did finally get around to putting the DoctorDiff 13" Viper kit on it though, so that was a nice improvement in the stopping department even from the 13" Cobra style kit that was on there before.

The old 13" cobra style kit

View attachment 1716150271

The new rotors. Same overall diameter, but

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Much thicker rotors, lots more meat on these
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The new caliper brackets with the aluminum DoctorDiff hubs
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The MUCH larger GIII Viper calipers
View attachment 1716150275

As awesome as that is...I have to admit that aluminum hubs for street use scare me.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The EFI even on the 340 would seriously tone down any driveability issues and should help the fuel mileage. I got about 2 mpg with the EFI and an additional 2 with the T56 Magnum.

I didn't even get remotely agressive at tuning mine for fuel mileage, I rarely drive for more than 1/2 hr at a time, most roads in the 45-55 mph range with quite a few stops (with sometime between 25 and 35) and I'm basically always getting between 14.8 and 16 mpg. Given that I tuned it myself, I could still be leaving quite a bit on the table, but it stays in range a lot better than my 750 Quick Fuel double pumper did.

I'm hoping next year that I can do either Power Tour (depending on where it starts and ends) or maybe do MoParty (my folks live about 1 hr away from Bowling Green in TN). Have to add A/C first I think though. I'd be fine at least doing the autocross. Would be driving it there and back too...

I look at the viper calipers once and a while, but I'm really unsure if the opposed pistons have any chance of clearing my Torque Thrust M's. It's somewhat difficult to offset the rotor far enough in for the caliper to clear. I still have a lot of stopping power at my disposal with the cobra brakes + hydroboost. No idea what pads are in those either, probably should see if I can still read the edge codes. For the street, I would imagine you'd be best to run a low met of some sort, hopefully with a GG edge code. Sometimes another option is Raybestos Element3 pads that are GG edge code but they are a combination of low met and ceramic, a little less dusty and still quiet. Use them on all the "normal" cars and they are usually a good upgrade.

I find the other side of these brakes kind of interesting, during street driving, I really never get any heat into the rotors, I come back from a drive and they are rarely over 130F where my regular cars are usually in the 210F range after a drive.

The Viper calipers on AR Engineering brackets with 12" B-body rotors WILL clear a 15" wheel.

https://www.moparaction.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/16s-4.jpg (Can't attach pic, need to click the link.)

 

[72bluNblu]

As awesome as that is...I have to admit that aluminum hubs for street use scare me.

Originally I had the same kind of thought. But honestly aluminum hubs and even aluminum steering knuckles are really common on modern cars. And those are cast aluminum hubs and knuckles, not billet.

So I put them right there in the same category as aluminum wheels, they get an occasional inspection. But as long as the studs aren't loose there really shouldn't be any issues. They're basically just copies of the factory hubs less the rotor, so should anything ever arise with them I can just have the rotors turned off of a factory set to replace them.

The Viper calipers on AR Engineering brackets with 12" B-body rotors WILL clear a 15" wheel.

https://www.moparaction.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/16s-4.jpg (Can't attach pic, need to click the link.)

You mean the 11.75" B/R body rotors. Yes, that's been known since the second go around with the Green Brick. That kit was for the later 73+ drum spindles and uses the Gen II Viper calipers.

I think we're all talking about the 13" Viper kit, which uses the 73+ disk spindles and the Get III Viper calipers. And which definitely won't fit on anything smaller than a 17" rim, and probably not a lot of 17" rims either. I think it would be safe to say the 13" Viper kit will probably work with most 18" wheels, and some 17" wheels, but probably not "all" in either diameter.

 

[JBrian]

The caliper fitment will depend on selection of rotor. A 14.25" Challenger rotor with Viper Brembos will not fit all 18" wheels. The kit from DrDiff using the 13.3" rotors will most likely fit a larger number of 18" wheels and possibly 17" wheels as well.

 

[72bluNblu]

Took a few pictures of the dustdevil after the recent storms

I'm not gonna hold my breath or anything, but finally, in the relatively near future, she should be sitting inside parked in this spot...

 

[DionR]

Took a few pictures of the dustdevil after the recent storms

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I'm not gonna hold my breath or anything, but finally, in the relatively near future, she should be sitting inside parked in this spot...

You would think you almost daily drive it.

Absolutely love how your car sits. Great pictures!

Did you settle on calling it the dustdevil? Seems like a fitting name for it.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Your car is so bad ***.
We got hammered with rain the last few days. Like 3 years worth in 72 hours.

 

[Ottmundr]

Those '68 side marker lights do look nice.

 

[Cuprum-74]

Took a few pictures of the dustdevil after the recent storms

View attachment 1716204376

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View attachment 1716204378

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I'm not gonna hold my breath or anything, but finally, in the relatively near future, she should be sitting inside parked in this spot...

But, but you're driving it in the snow! You should stop! Your car will melt with cancer with all the snow and salt!
It should be kept in a climate controlled garage or trailer and only driven 500 miles a year.

J/K (The reaction of some when they see someone driving theirs in the winter)

 

[Kern Dog]

Hmmm.....

I'm not gonna hold my breath or anything, but finally, in the relatively near future, she should be sitting inside parked in this spot...

....meaning you're building a shop in that exact location!
Score!

 

[72bluNblu]

You would think you almost daily drive it.

Absolutely love how your car sits. Great pictures!

Did you settle on calling it the dustdevil? Seems like a fitting name for it.

Thanks!

I try not to drive it in the snow much. Even just running around on my driveway for these pictures was pretty entertaining with the Falken Azeni's, they definitely don't do as well in the cold/snow as the old BFG KDW2's did. But you can only ask so much of a 200 treadwear summer tire!

I mostly just call it a Duster, most people have a hard enough time knowing what that is!

Your car is so bad ***.
We got hammered with rain the last few days. Like 3 years worth in 72 hours.

Thank you sir!

Yeah I think SoCal definitely got the worst of the last couple of storms, especially the rain totals. Sacramento really got hammered with wind, the rain wasn't that extreme. Where I'm at it wasn't nearly as windy, and the rain wasn't out of the ordinary for a good storm. The snow was a little unexpected but we only got a few inches. Not like the 3' we had last year!

Those '68 side marker lights do look nice.

View attachment 1716204427

Thanks! I've been running the standard round Barracuda '68 markers in the front and a set from a '68 Chrysler 300 in the back. I have a whole collection of various '68 markers, but I think the rear markers off the 300 are my favorite (top right)

But, but you're driving it in the snow! You should stop! Your car will melt with cancer with all the snow and salt!
It should be kept in a climate controlled garage or trailer and only driven 500 miles a year.

J/K (The reaction of some when they see someone driving theirs in the winter)

Right? Although full disclosure, I only went a few hundred feet this time around, side stepping it a lot of the way. The 200 treadwear 295's in the back are great in the summer, not so much in the snow!

I may have to get a winter set of wheels/tires for it, but at my elevation I usually run the 4x4 if the snow is gonna fly. I've only lost a few commutes in the Duster due to snow so far this year.

Hmmm.....



....meaning you're building a shop in that exact location!
Score!

You may have noticed my Duster is sitting on a big concrete slab in those pictures. 30'x42' to be exact. The metal building should show up in the next couple weeks, but assembly is somewhat weather dependent so who knows. It's been delayed several times, it was supposed to be done before winter, not spring.

 

[Kern Dog]

Good for you, man.
Those pictures dispel the myths some people have about how it never rains or snows here.

 

[moparmat2000]

Took a few pictures of the dustdevil after the recent storms

View attachment 1716204376

View attachment 1716204377


View attachment 1716204378

View attachment 1716204380


I'm not gonna hold my breath or anything, but finally, in the relatively near future, she should be sitting inside parked in this spot...

Such a good looking car. Stance, wheels, everything.

 

[mopowers]

Thanks!

I try not to drive it in the snow much. Even just running around on my driveway for these pictures was pretty entertaining with the Falken Azeni's, they definitely don't do as well in the cold/snow as the old BFG KDW2's did. But you can only ask so much of a 200 treadwear summer tire!

I mostly just call it a Duster, most people have a hard enough time knowing what that is!


Thank you sir!

Yeah I think SoCal definitely got the worst of the last couple of storms, especially the rain totals. Sacramento really got hammered with wind, the rain wasn't that extreme. Where I'm at it wasn't nearly as windy, and the rain wasn't out of the ordinary for a good storm. The snow was a little unexpected but we only got a few inches. Not like the 3' we had last year!



Thanks! I've been running the standard round Barracuda '68 markers in the front and a set from a '68 Chrysler 300 in the back. I have a whole collection of various '68 markers, but I think the rear markers off the 300 are my favorite (top right)


View attachment 1716204493


Right? Although full disclosure, I only went a few hundred feet this time around, side stepping it a lot of the way. The 200 treadwear 295's in the back are great in the summer, not so much in the snow!

I may have to get a winter set of wheels/tires for it, but at my elevation I usually run the 4x4 if the snow is gonna fly. I've only lost a few commutes in the Duster due to snow so far this year.



You may have noticed my Duster is sitting on a big concrete slab in those pictures. 30'x42' to be exact. The metal building should show up in the next couple weeks, but assembly is somewhat weather dependent so who knows. It's been delayed several times, it was supposed to be done before winter, not spring.
View attachment 1716204494

That's going to be awesome. Who'd you end up going with for the metal building? Also if you don't mind sharing, what did the slab run? I've been gather cost info for a shop for when I'm able to find a place to move to.

 

[racerjoe]

Thanks!

I try not to drive it in the snow much. Even just running around on my driveway for these pictures was pretty entertaining with the Falken Azeni's, they definitely don't do as well in the cold/snow as the old BFG KDW2's did. But you can only ask so much of a 200 treadwear summer tire!

I mostly just call it a Duster, most people have a hard enough time knowing what that is!


Thank you sir!

Yeah I think SoCal definitely got the worst of the last couple of storms, especially the rain totals. Sacramento really got hammered with wind, the rain wasn't that extreme. Where I'm at it wasn't nearly as windy, and the rain wasn't out of the ordinary for a good storm. The snow was a little unexpected but we only got a few inches. Not like the 3' we had last year!



Thanks! I've been running the standard round Barracuda '68 markers in the front and a set from a '68 Chrysler 300 in the back. I have a whole collection of various '68 markers, but I think the rear markers off the 300 are my favorite (top right)


View attachment 1716204493


Right? Although full disclosure, I only went a few hundred feet this time around, side stepping it a lot of the way. The 200 treadwear 295's in the back are great in the summer, not so much in the snow!

I may have to get a winter set of wheels/tires for it, but at my elevation I usually run the 4x4 if the snow is gonna fly. I've only lost a few commutes in the Duster due to snow so far this year.



You may have noticed my Duster is sitting on a big concrete slab in those pictures. 30'x42' to be exact. The metal building should show up in the next couple weeks, but assembly is somewhat weather dependent so who knows. It's been delayed several times, it was supposed to be done before winter, not spring.
View attachment 1716204494

Looks like a beautiful area and that sized shop will be nice. I thought my oversized 3 car garage would suffice when I built my house, but it didn't take long for me to want something double the size.

 

[340sFastback]

I missed post about Demon tail light panel. That and the matching front end that is a very nice upgrade!

Big building for cars will bring a lot of happiness for sure!!

 

[JBrian]

Friggen Awsome!!!

 

[Red Stripe]

Those are some cool photos!

 

[72smallairparticler]

Amazing shots @72bluNblu. Absolutely love the stance and all the detailed engineering time you've invested in that car. Exciting shop project too!

 

[72bluNblu]

Good for you, man.
Those pictures dispel the myths some people have about how it never rains or snows here.

Thanks!

This year has been alright so far, the last two winters kicked my *** with all the snow. I’m at 3,500’ so we definitely get snow, but usually we don’t see much more than a foot at a time and typically it’s more like this year where we have a storm and get 6” and it melts within a week.

Last year we had 3’ at one point, and I blew the spider gears out of the Dana 44 in my plow truck. My Duster is on the right of the Ford in this picture from last year, before I dug it out. All the snow on the Ford was from overnight. And that’s a ‘71 ford lifted 4” and on 35’s



That’s an ‘02 Dakota 5.9 4x4 under there

That's going to be awesome. Who'd you end up going with for the metal building? Also if you don't mind sharing, what did the slab run? I've been gather cost info for a shop for when I'm able to find a place to move to.

I’ll shoot you a PM

Looks like a beautiful area and that sized shop will be nice. I thought my oversized 3 car garage would suffice when I built my house, but it didn't take long for me to want something double the size.

Thanks!

Yeah that sounds about right! I had a 24x26’ shop at my last place and it was full and then some. 30x42’ is about the max at the new place so that’s what it’s getting, probably still won’t be enough but it’s more than I’ve had so I’ll make it work

 

[go-fish]

Thanks!

This year has been alright so far, the last two winters kicked my *** with all the snow. I’m at 3,500’ so we definitely get snow, but usually we don’t see much more than a foot at a time and typically it’s more like this year where we have a storm and get 6” and it melts within a week.

Last year we had 3’ at one point, and I blew the spider gears out of the Dana 44 in my plow truck. My Duster is on the right of the Ford in this picture from last year, before I dug it out. All the snow on the Ford was from overnight. And that’s a ‘71 ford lifted 4” and on 35’s

View attachment 1716204779

That’s an ‘02 Dakota 5.9 4x4 under there

View attachment 1716204782



I’ll shoot you a PM


Thanks!

Yeah that sounds about right! I had a 24x26’ shop at my last place and it was full and then some. 30x42’ is about the max at the new place so that’s what it’s getting, probably still won’t be enough but it’s more than I’ve had so I’ll make it work

We were at 2,900 feet in San Diego and would get dusted once or twice a year. Our way to the main road was up in elevation to about 3200 with canyon drop-offs where the snow was much heavier and air colder. We were also 25 miles inland and right at the top of the marine layer heights. Our dustings would melt in half a day but at 3200+ it would just stay a day or two. On shore winds are always going to dominate and keep it tropical.

 

[AirForceRacer]

Car looks great!! Maybe you can make it to Spring Fling this year.