Slant six cam

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MvJackson

MvJackson

72duster
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
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Location
Mesa, AZ
Shopping for a cam for my 72 duster.


I am looking at this one here.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k64-241-4

I know clifford also has one near the same specs.


I was wondering what gains I would get if I put the oversized valves versus leaving the stock ones on there.

Anyone have any other suggestions on cams.
About builds they've done.
Thanks ahead of time.
 
It would be good to know what you intend to do with your car; race, daily driver, long trips? (Don't expect anybody to necessarily remember your past posts on this....)
- Do you want tire squealing, or economy and torque?
- Carb type; 1bbl, 2, bbl, or 4 bbl?
- Trans type?

This cam is pretty similar to one sold by Doug Dutra (Doctor Dodge on www.slantsix.org) but supposedly his has a bit different lobe profile. I put one in my all stock 1962 /6 in a B-bodies '62 Dart. It does very well in the low and mid ranges and seems to pull this heavier Dart up the Appalachian mountains just fine with a manual 3-speed and a 1 BBL carb and no valve mods, just an .050" head mill. I can tell the idle is just a bit rougher than stock but still smooth.

Doug will set the LSA on the cam differently for a 1 BBL vs 2 BBL. The Comp Cams unit has 4 degrees advance ground in, so that is good. If you don't/can't spec that with Doug, you'll have to monkey with cam buttons to set advance in the cam. So that is a plus for the Comp Cams unit.

You can use Sealed Power VS510 valve springs up to .435 or .440 lift; the pix of the Comp Cams kit looks like duals which is not really needed. Someone else did some /6 valve spring research on this level of lift, so maybe they will chime in.

What REALLY bothers me on this particular Comp Cams kit is that the pix is for a V8!!! So who knows what you are going to be getting!! Caveat emptor.....
 
I have read that the Comps have issues with the oil pump drive gear stripping out.
 
nm9stheham said:
It would be good to know what you intend to do with your car; race, daily driver, long trips? (Don't expect anybody to necessarily remember your past posts on this....)
- Do you want tire squealing, or economy and torque?
- Carb type; 1bbl, 2, bbl, or 4 bbl?
- Trans type?

This cam is pretty similar to one sold by Doug Dutra (Doctor Dodge on www.slantsix.org) but supposedly his has a bit different lobe profile. I put one in my all stock 1962 /6 in a B-bodies '62 Dart. It does very well in the low and mid ranges and seems to pull this heavier Dart up the Appalachian mountains just fine with a manual 3-speed and a 1 BBL carb and no valve mods, just an .050" head mill. I can tell the idle is just a bit rougher than stock but still smooth.

Doug will set the LSA on the cam differently for a 1 BBL vs 2 BBL. The Comp Cams unit has 4 degrees advance ground in, so that is good. If you don't/can't spec that with Doug, you'll have to monkey with cam buttons to set advance in the cam. So that is a plus for the Comp Cams unit.

You can use Sealed Power VS510 valve springs up to .435 or .440 lift; the pix of the Comp Cams kit looks like duals which is not really needed. Someone else did some /6 valve spring research on this level of lift, so maybe they will chime in.

What REALLY bothers me on this particular Comp Cams kit is that the pix is for a V8!!! So who knows what you are going to be getting!! Caveat emptor.....
Click to expand...




I am currently running a dual 2 barrel weber clifford intake with their headers out.
A 904 auto trans.
I just want a fun daily driver. As it is my only car. Longest trip is la to long beach everyday.
They have pictures of it on eBay where they show the slant six kit.

Maybe a little on the strip when I have it ready.
 
Go for the Oregon Cam Grinders #819. Same cam. Plus, you can have your old cam and lifters reground to this and be much cheaper. Oh, and this cam would like 8.5-9:1 TRUE (as in measured) compression, and possibly some 2.94-3.23 gears. This cam will 'come on' right around 2500rpm
 
Brandon Weaver said:
Go for the Oregon Cam Grinders #819. Same cam. Plus, you can have your old cam and lifters reground to this and be much cheaper. Oh, and this cam would like 8.5-9:1 TRUE (as in measured) compression, and possibly some 2.94-3.23 gears. This cam will 'come on' right around 2500rpm
Click to expand...

I am currently shopping my junkyards for an 8 3/4 rear end.
I still haven't 7 1/4 on.
Would that be a Problem?
 
MvJackson said:
I am currently running a dual 2 barrel weber clifford intake with their headers out.
A 904 auto trans.
I just want a fun daily driver. As it is my only car. Longest trip is la to long beach everyday.
They have pictures of it on eBay where they show the slant six kit.

Maybe a little on the strip when I have it ready.
Click to expand...
I do believe that RRR has it right on the reports of Comp Cams and the pump gear issues; worth avoiding.

I would not worry about the 7.25" rear for now with the /6 you have. Make sure that the cam is set with 2-4 degrees advance (ground in or set with cam buttons; takes a bit of work) and with a new chain, whatever you do.

Not sure how the post about the 8.5-9.5 CR can be correct with just a particular cam, and not knowing the rest of the engine build specs.

How much are you shaving the head?

BTW, I need to doublecheck the Dutra torque cam duration again to make sure I am correct in that comparison.
 
I think I have landed on a Howard cams .473 lift. I need to get everything hing lined up so I know what I'll be needing before install starts.
 
Are you doing a full overhaul or just putting in the cam?

For just the cam:
- Timing cover gasket set
- Timing chain set
- Oil pan gasket set if you have to pull the pan (you don't if you work it right)
- Oil pump gasket
- Fuel pump gasket
- Valve cover gasket
- Water pump gasket
- Black RTV
- Head gasket if the lifters can't come up through the head pushrod area (job gets a lot bigger).
- I'd put in a new oil pump while you are there.
- Interesting article: http://www.slantsix.org/articles/in-car-camshaft/install-review.htm

Pulling the lifters can be a challenge if varnish has built up on the lifter bodies.

That Howard cam has 4 degrees advance ground in.... good for a driver.
 
BTW, you should not try to use the stock valve springs with that Howard cam lift; not enough clearance to coil bind. So add that to your list.
 
I'm confused about regrinds - how do you take a stock cam and grind material off to get a hotter cam - seem like you might be able to change the slope of the ramps, but not add lift or change duration? Am I missing something?
 
64DartGTinAZ said:
I'm confused about regrinds - how do you take a stock cam and grind material off to get a hotter cam - seem like you might be able to change the slope of the ramps, but not add lift or change duration? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...


You can add lift and duration by reducing the base circle.

Lift is the difference between the lobe and base circle. You can then add lift by raising the nose, or reducing the base circle...
 
BYW, I was thinking about this Howard cam and am not sure it is a good choice with the stock torque converter. Howard advertises this as being for 1800-5600 RPM. With the lower torque of a /6 & with this cam at lower RPM's the torque converter is going to want to lock up early and the engine may be lugging/sluggish at take off. The overall duration does not seem too bad (255/255 at .006" lift) so I am not sure how to take their advertised RPM range. I personally would go with something with a lower duration and advertised RPM range unless someone know this would work well.
 
krazykuda said:
You can add lift and duration by reducing the base circle.

Lift is the difference between the lobe and base circle. You can then add lift by raising the nose, or reducing the base circle...
Click to expand...

OK - found a diagram - do you use the same lifters, or do you need longer lifters, or?
 

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nm9stheham said:
BYW, I was thinking about this Howard cam and am not sure it is a good choice with the stock torque converter. Howard advertises this as being for 1800-5600 RPM. With the lower torque of a /6 & with this cam at lower RPM's the torque converter is going to want to lock up early and the engine may be lugging/sluggish at take off. The overall duration does not seem too bad (255/255 at .006" lift) so I am not sure how to take their advertised RPM range. I personally would go with something with a lower duration and advertised RPM range unless someone know this would work well.
Click to expand...

That is indeed odd, as I've heard reports, and Comp even advertises that their 252 comes on just off idle. I think (my overpriced $.02 of course) that I'd take the operating range with a grain of salt, since it is all very dependent on the different motor combinations anyhows.
 
I am always happy with manufacturers making parts for the slant, but the Comp cam has some bad things about it as mentioned earlier threads. The cam gear is hardener and will break your cam gear prematurely. Also, the cam is center lined way off to get any decent low end torque. I don't believe either of these issues has changed despite a lot of complaints from slant six.org members. I got mine 20 years ago and replaced it with one of the last Mopar ones available from direct connection. Same specs as the Comp, but way better to drive. Talk to Doug Dutra percent Elgin or Erson cams. They will fix you up right.
And yes, bigger valves and bowl porting will get you more power.
Good luck and keep us posted!
 
64DartGTinAZ said:
I'm confused about regrinds - how do you take a stock cam and grind material off to get a hotter cam - seem like you might be able to change the slope of the ramps, but not add lift or change duration? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

You are thinking in limitations of leaving the cam lobe where it is. A cam grinder can put that lobe anywhere in relation to the cam core center line he wants. Just like Karl said. If you move the base circle, you can do all kind of things.

I let Oregon regrind my 331 Hemi cam from a hydraulic flat tappet to a solid. It came back lookin like a cheater cam with the base circle almost even with the cam core, but they did it just fine. Of course I had to have custom adjustable pushrods but Hot Heads sells them.
 
nm9stheham said:
Are you doing a full overhaul or just putting in the cam?

For just the cam:
- Timing cover gasket set
- Timing chain set
- Oil pan gasket set if you have to pull the pan (you don't if you work it right)
- Oil pump gasket
- Fuel pump gasket
- Valve cover gasket
- Water pump gasket
- Black RTV
- Head gasket if the lifters can't come up through the head pushrod area (job gets a lot bigger).
- I'd put in a new oil pump while you are there.
- Interesting article: http://www.slantsix.org/articles/in-car-camshaft/install-review.htm

Pulling the lifters can be a challenge if varnish has built up on the lifter bodies.

That Howard cam has 4 degrees advance ground in.... good for a driver.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I am getting the springs and lifters as well. That oil pump idea is good too. I'll be doing all of them at the same time.
 
What are some of the brands of cams to look through? I keep seeing negative things about the COMP CAMS setups. I've looked of the Howard cams and Erson. I'm going to be building a turbo\tbfi car and going to be building the motor with forged pistons and some more goodies. Any help is appreciated guys thanks.
 
The oil pump gear on the /6 is small and is somewhat stressed. The knock against the Comp Cams is about the /6 oil pump gear, that it is reportedly even harder on the oil pump gear. Comp Cams are quite populr for the small blocks.

The Erson's and Oregon cams seem to have a good reputation for the /6. The most complete info on the /6 will come from www.slantsix.org.

I would keep a turbo static compression ratio down around 8:1.
 
I would add to this that hughes engines is now offering /6 cams,which I believe are
ground/supplied for them by engalls(not sure correct spelling),with their aggressive
lobe designs taking advantage of the .904" lifter dia.
I hate hearing of problems with an otherwise reputable co. like comp cams,and it
would be good to get a definitive reason for this gear issue.Whether it is an angle/
profile issue,incompatible hardness issue, or improper placement(fore/aft)issue,the
problem needs outed. Luckily we have other companies to choose from,but that still
bothers me.
As for a cam that "comes in" at 2500RPM, your going to need a looser converter
unless you want a dog off the line,just sayin. And running steeper gears is a crutch
that won't fix the lazy launch,just shorten it's duration,and clip the top end off your
hiway cruising depending on how high you go.
The o/s valve, compression, and other items were already addressed in your first
thread on this project,which you seem to have the need to run multi threads for.
good luck!
 
What is the price on the Erson cams and do they come as kits with all the hardware to support it or no?
 
Killer6 said:
I would add to this that hughes engines is now offering /6 cams,which I believe are
ground/supplied for them by engalls(not sure correct spelling),with their aggressive
lobe designs taking advantage of the .904" lifter dia.
I hate hearing of problems with an otherwise reputable co. like comp cams,and it
would be good to get a definitive reason for this gear issue.Whether it is an angle/
profile issue,incompatible hardness issue, or improper placement(fore/aft)issue,the
problem needs outed. Luckily we have other companies to choose from,but that still
bothers me.
As for a cam that "comes in" at 2500RPM, your going to need a looser converter
unless you want a dog off the line,just sayin. And running steeper gears is a crutch
that won't fix the lazy launch,just shorten it's duration,and clip the top end off your
hiway cruising depending on how high you go.
The o/s valve, compression, and other items were already addressed in your first
thread on this project,which you seem to have the need to run multi threads for.
good luck!
Click to expand...
Killer6,
There is an extensive thread on the Comp Cam oil gear failure issue on slantsix.org. A post mortim of a few engines running comp cams that had oil pump gear failures were analyzed and the verdict was essentially material hardness incompatibility. It is an interesting read.
I am not sure if Comp has made any changes to their design since the failures were determined. That was a few years back now.
 
They did a survey on slantsix.org about cam failures.
After reading all that I contacted Oregon Camgrinders (Ken?) via email and told him what I was up to. A driver 225/6 3 speed stick 64 Valiant. Head milled .080, pocket ported, port matched all by me, complete rebuild on the engine, future exhaust upgrade and probably a 2 barrel. He recommended their 818 or 819 grind. I sent him my core and 2 weeks and $80 + shipping I had my "new" cam in my hands. I went with the milder 818 grind because this really is going to be a driver. It's close to the 252 Comp grind which shows an idle-4500 RPM range. With my 4-1/8" stroke I'm not looking for a screamer and I will always lean toward the milder side given a choice between 2 cams. I am keeping my stock oil pump so the gear mesh should be what it's been since new with the same cam and new lifters from Rockauto.
Close to 100% street driving putzin around but it will see a few runs down a quarter mile just for fun. I am not looking for a fast car, just one less slow and very driveable.
 
KosmicKuda said:
but it will see a few runs down a quarter mile just for fun.
Click to expand...
So how much time will you spot me in my '62 B-Body Dart /6 225 1 BBL with column shift 3 speed, 3.31 rear, with whitewall tires and the mighty 1-1/4" exhaust? We could square off at the Columbus Nationals next year and bill it as the "Battle of the /6 Minions". I'd be happy to bust 20 secs/ 80 mph....LOL
 
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