explorer 8.8 in an a-body: experience needed
- Thread starter dusterbd13
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Supershafts
Well-Known Member
Apparently you do since you have changed front pads twice in a 60/40 system, i said a RV has no effect on brake bias, and keeping fluid retracting a piston are 2 entirely different things.. brake bias is controlled by one or two other things not a RV
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That is true, and yet i have seen many vehicles with discs added still need RV.
Even i have had to put RV in 2 of my cars when going over to disc in the rear.
Apparently you are completely clueless as you have no real idea just how worn, or not worn my rear pads were when I decided to replace them. You also have no idea what caused the rear pads to get to the point that I felt they needed to be replaced.
140,000 miles in 20 years. Fourwheeled in 10 states, in mud, snow, rock, sand, you name it... Crap gets run past the pads, scoring them deeply. They were replaced long before they actually wore out from stop and go driving.
inkjunkie
Well-Known Member
Off roading is like running the pads thru a grinder. When I used to go in NJ I would be lucky to get 7k on a set of pads thanks to all the slop in the Pine Barrens.....
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
This is what you said when asked , and how we are at YOUR 60/40 system not working correctly, lets stay with the facts you gave, and not add anything that wasn't already known. the above is not getting any relevance
We now have to refresh memory so i'll start all over and use quotes so no one is misunderstood......
Then i asked
Supershafts said:
This was asked because a proper brake system on 60/40 or even 70/30 doesn't go thru multiple front brake changes and no rears.
ab7fh said:
Apparently i do know very well how your rear pads are wearing since You told me... TWICE on the front ZERO at the back
All i have pointed out is you changed the front pads twice in a 60/40 or even 70/30 and think thats normal and it is not, you have a brake problem believe it or not.
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73SwingerBuild
Well-Known Member
You guys should probably exchange phone numbers at this point, or settle it in PMs and lay out the final answer here. Any valuable information about putting an 8.8 in an a-body is being lost through the argument over the requirement for an RV.
Based on my previous scuffles with Supershafts on this forum, he doesn't just work through a project until it's functional. He works through a project until it's done right. He doesn't leave any room for guesswork.
I appreciate his input to the thread because he seems to be laying out the detailed steps of what is needed to correctly install a fully-functioning and safe system. Maybe the degree of safety (or reliability) is overkill for some, but that's up to each person to decide.
I'd like to see a final answer to the OPs question about simply moving the shackles and installing the rear (even though I think the offset center section will prove to be an issue), so maybe somebody on here has the answer to that. Thanks.
-Mike
Hersbird
Well-Known Member
Now if we could only work some HID lighting into this discussion so Dan could get involved as well...
I'm going to have to come up with some specific expertise so I could tirelessly argue the saftey issue everytime that topic comes up... oh I got it! My nuclear waste disposal background! Need to search and ensure everbody has proper disposal system hooked up to their Mr. Fusion if they use one to power their flux capacitor.
I'm going to have to come up with some specific expertise so I could tirelessly argue the saftey issue everytime that topic comes up... oh I got it! My nuclear waste disposal background! Need to search and ensure everbody has proper disposal system hooked up to their Mr. Fusion if they use one to power their flux capacitor.
The only problem I have is with a guy who goes by Supershafts. He thinks he knows it all. He doesn't. I will continue to enjoy the superb braking power of my rig... You can continue with the mental masturbation.
End of discussion.
I am by no means an expert, and I am not trying to fan the flames, but could both of you (ab7fh & supershafts) be right? If the brakes are designed to go xxxxmiles on an a-body and the same on an xploder, thats assuming that they are both rated the same, the exloder weighes probably 20-25% more than an a-body. That being said, would the rear brakes not last 20-25% longer on an abody? They would not have to do the same amount of work on a lighter vehicle either, may not work as hard as they were intended on the originally designed for vehicle, but if they did, might cause rear lockup on a lighter vehicle. I dont honestly know if this is the case or not, but would love to hear others thoughts on this. This is the reason I went to a drum brake 8.8, being that they are both 10" drums I figured that it would be an easier swap with existing brake hydraulics on the car.
Rick
Rick
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
No flaming and im not upset, i apparently am failing to explain something here that he can understand that in a 60/40 or 70/30 system if you aren't changing rear pads 30% to 40% after you changed the front there is a braking problem...
He has a explorer that he added discs to and now has changed front pads twice on that vehicle and still not the rear, so in his situation he doesn't have more brake area vs weight equaling less wear and more braking force.
As for your question on the brakes not wearing because the A body is a lighter weight vehicle than what the caliper and pad area were designed for at the explorers weight that is a great question.
If the brakes are working correctly and the pads slack are taken up against the rotor than by the area of the piston and pad there should be an increase in braking at the rear than the front. A explorer is nearly 4100 lbs, a dart is 3200+, so the wear would be less, still not 2 plus times than the front, however if it was working properly as per design it would be working more than it should and wear slightly more than it should.
So knowing that the dart should have to much braking and need a different prop valve, not having early locking problems is saying that the slack isn't being taken up and the reason that isn't happening is because a good part of pedal travel is taking up the slack because it is retracting.
Supershafts I was thinking of those who have used factory a-body master with explorer disc and thought it worked well as is. If the factory master is not applying proper force to rear calipers, but in return the rear is factory designed to brake harder, they might kind of balance each other out. I personally do not want to trail and error my brake system to find out if it works in a panic situation. So if putting a disc explorer diff in, how would you figure out what master cylinder would work with factory front disc/ explorer rear disc? Would 2# RV on rear be adequate to hold pads to rotor without causing excess drag? Thanks for all the info, greatly appreciated.
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
It works, but well is the questionable area, some people don't even notice the braking is off, might find the fronts doing more work from the retraction and they lock early and not even notice the rear are still just there and doing very little, or the rears locking before the front.
The force is determined at the pedal and its location of the push rod to mount.
What i always do when making cars that were disc/drum convert to disc/disc is i use the 1.125 bore master, the factory masters in the cars were either 15/16 or 1", mostly 15/16.
I always add the 1.125 masters (they are usually from a dakota or truck and are AL and plastic reservoir)
After that i would go for a ride and see whats what, the issue with the retraction of the pistons are a few things, when you hit the brakes they'll move, and when you have a c-clip style axle retention they move and also push the piston back in, you can add the RV to the single line where the split or rear T fitting is to hold both right and left with one
You may find at this point it is all fine, but the braking area of the pad for the explorer would be more than the dart needs and should have a need to hold back some pressure, you have to test it and see what you like.
Make some stops from different speeds and try using the brakes hard and then normally, then i would try it on wet conditions where you may notice either to much front brake or to much rear brake and need to make adjustments
The force is determined at the pedal and its location of the push rod to mount.
What i always do when making cars that were disc/drum convert to disc/disc is i use the 1.125 bore master, the factory masters in the cars were either 15/16 or 1", mostly 15/16.
I always add the 1.125 masters (they are usually from a dakota or truck and are AL and plastic reservoir)
After that i would go for a ride and see whats what, the issue with the retraction of the pistons are a few things, when you hit the brakes they'll move, and when you have a c-clip style axle retention they move and also push the piston back in, you can add the RV to the single line where the split or rear T fitting is to hold both right and left with one
You may find at this point it is all fine, but the braking area of the pad for the explorer would be more than the dart needs and should have a need to hold back some pressure, you have to test it and see what you like.
Make some stops from different speeds and try using the brakes hard and then normally, then i would try it on wet conditions where you may notice either to much front brake or to much rear brake and need to make adjustments
Take the word of the people who build braking systems for racers...
From Wilwood's site:
Regarding the master cylinder. I went with a Wilwood master cylinder when I added four wheel discs to my Dart. Looks great, and the performance matches.
Woods74
Broke Senior
I learned long ago the only way I can take any of Supershafts tech advice is for entertainment purposes only. Let's relax and move on.
dusterbd13
Well-Known Member
is it sad that i have long since stopped checking my own thread?
never did get any pictures of what i was looking for, but hopefully will when one poster comes back from out of country. that will tell me what i need to know.
michael
never did get any pictures of what i was looking for, but hopefully will when one poster comes back from out of country. that will tell me what i need to know.
michael
Idaho
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2006
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Yes quite the rabbit trails. Most of your questions are answered in this thread. It's long and requires some digging. Maybe you've been through it already...
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=89918
Lots of pics, not sure it the exhaust question is addressed though. I can give you the tube diameter if you like. Should be similar otherwise I think.
I plan to use a master from a 4 wheel disc system and likely will add an adjustable prop valve.
In the thread.
Quiet.
In the thread.
In the thread I think.
In the thread I think
Probably :mrgreen: (mounting of pinion snubber?)
Side note story:
I bought mine from a wrecker almost a year ago. Opened it up just the other day... what the???
This thing is open not posi!!!
I called them up and very politely explained. They are sending me a brand new posi carrier. Score!
Supershafts
Well-Known Member
5 and 6 you need to see your local driveline shop for
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