Are number matching or original components a big deal?

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MObarracuda

MObarracuda

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I have an all original 1967 Plymouth Barracuda fastback with 2bbl base with buckets and center console shifter survivor in good shape. The previous owner carved on the volume knob area on the dash to get his stereo to fit. My car lacks VIN numbers on the engine and transmission but are date coded since it was produced before 1968. In fact the VIN number plate on the fender lacks the engine designation letter in the VIN (ODD FACT).

What is the forms opinion on the numbers matching or original parts debate of the vehicle value in its stock state versus modifications? It is no secret the 273 is not a popular motor on this forum. I plan on enjoying the car for a while but will sell it some time down the road but the 273 is blowing blue smoke and blow by is getting bad and I have to do something.

Future modifications could include the 340, magnum 360 and four-speed auto transmission. I understand the value will be directly dependent on the quality of the work performed but will component selection effect the future value of the car?

Specific Questions for the forum

1. Should I just save original 273 and A904 for the next owner or can I just pull the forged crank from the 273 and hold the 920 closed chambered heads and let the rest go?
2. Will it hurt the value if I add headrests (for safety reasons) to the 67 buckets?
3. Besides the fact it cost more to find and build a 340 vs 360 but will the vehicle have more value and buyer appeal with a 340?
4. Do stroked engines turn on or turn off "most" buyers?

I have been struggleing with these questions for a while now. I love to tinker and I feel I have a great platform to make a nice streetcar. I appreciate any advise and opinions you all can provide.

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This is all up to you. If it was a Hemi car I would try to persuade you to keep it factory but in this case it is up to you. If it was up to me I would build the car how I wanted and have fun with it. If you want to do a 1000 point restoration then yes that will hurt the car but if you want a good driver I would not worry about it.
 
You're probably going to get answers all over the map on this, but much depends on what you plan to do with the car. Do you want a fun old car to drive, or are you looking at building a show car? If the latter, yeah, you'll likely want it as original as possible. Otherwise, as long as you keep the car "in its era" you should be fine. I don't see how replacing an oil-burning 273 with a 318, 340 or 360 is a problem. The 80s-vintage aftermarket stereo doesn't look out of place, heck back in the day most of us probably put one just like it in our cars...I for one did. The factory AM radio might have been ok 50 years ago, but today not so much.

I approach owning an old car to be like owning an old house (got one of them too). As long as you don't do anything that sticks out like a sore thumb it shouldn't hurt its value. YMMV
 
- somebody replaces a oil burning 273 with a 6.1 hemi, do you think the car's value went up or down?
- somebody replaces a 7 1/4 with a Dana 60, do you think the car's value went up or down?
- somebody replaces single exhaust with a TTI dual exhaust system, value up or down?
Point is, it depends on the car. I say if you have a numbers matching 340 car, or anything that's a factory "declared muscle car" (Charger R/T, H-code, Road Runner, Super Bee, even a 360 4bbl Duster), better off with at least SAVING the numbers matching/original equipment stuff. Doesn't mean it has to be on the car.
In my opinion, anything that's newer than 1961with a 2bbl V8, or slant six, have at it and in most cases the value goes up.
 
Build it the way that You want it, and enjoy it. -- Don't worry about other people. -- My 2 cents.
 
lets start with the obvious...it has been tinkered with
someone decided the engine bay needed to look like a ford or chivy, rather then a mopar and paintbombed it
now, when they did that, they didnt tape over the fendertag but rather removed it and then reinstalled it later
or did they?
im no expert at reading fender tags and I MAY VERY WELL BE WRONG but that looks like a 71 tag to me

my first step would be to compare the fender tag to the VIN on the dash, and maybe have someone more knowledgeable then me check it
 
Its not a survivor. Build what you want to drive. Don't worry about what others think its your car. Looks far from original anyway.
 
The very reason I like to buy 318 Dusters. Do what I want and never look back, even at sell time :p.
 
Numbers matching don't mean dick, and here is why.

1) You said that you are building this car primarily for your enjoyment.

2) If or when you do decide to sell the car, AND if you have spent any serious money on it more significant than little pissant **** like fuel pump, oil filter, lightbulbs, fuel filter, oil changes, you WILL be losing money. A car is NOT a financial investment. If you want to grow your capital then put in a mild to wild 401k/ROTH IRA/savings account. With the rule of 72, you will be money ahead.

3) A car is NOT a liquid asset, and you will possibly have to sit on it for a long time trying to sell it. Consider also showroom floor fees, insurance et cetera WILL be eating into your net profit.

I have seen all this in my life. My dad used to restore all kinds of cars, from steam powered horseless carriages to classic cars, custom cars, and modern cars. He won numerous awards and would go to shows and auctions, as a shower, a judge, buyer, or seller.

I remember most pointedly the uptight assholes in the PCA (Porsche Club of America) as the worst of the lot. So ******* obsessed about perfect paint, out there polishing their shifty little bathtub 356 speedsters, roadsters, and coupes. None of those leaky kraut oilcans could even touch a first generation Mazda Miata in the performance department. None of which were fun to drive because you were always worried about a ******* rockchip in the paint or on the windshield.

When I first got my '67 barracuda convertible in 1992, it was ugly as ****, i drove it everywhere and ENJOYED it. After my dad and I restored it, it looked beautiful, but... I hated parking at the grocery store, constantly had to back off any car that jumped in front of me for fear of rocks being kicked up which could chip the paint or windshield, constantly had to wash it because of bugs and pollen...

Now with my '68 fastback, I am building it the way I want, swapping in parts I want and painting it whatever color I want. I couldn't give two ***** about resale value.

How much do you want to drive your car? How much do you want to stress out over your car? Your call.
 
If you're like most of us,chances are good you'll pass this one along "someday" and there will be another project so it's wise to look ahead.Sensible improvements are always a good thing and i'm betting the majority would want a 340 in your car.
 
Spend a couple bills and a weekend and drop a teen in there, then go have fun while you decide on it's future plans.
It sucks starting a big project before getting a chance to enjoy it for a while first.
When ready, do what ever suits you, a 340 or stroked 360 car will out-sell a 273 car all day.
Those Keystones look right on your car, and I don't even like them that much, nice ride sir!
 
pauly v.100 said:
Spend a couple bills and a weekend and drop a teen in there, then go have fun while you decide on it's future plans.
It sucks starting a big project before getting a chance to enjoy it for a while first.
When ready, do what ever suits you, a 340 or stroked 360 car will out-sell a 273 car all day.
Those Keystones look right on your car, and I don't even like them that much, nice ride sir!
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Thank you for the compliment and advise. The car was stored for 10 years in Michaigan of all places before I purchased it. I had to fix some 50 year old parts that were near failure. In repairing the tired parts I have made, what I feel are, period correct changes in preparation of the future engine change.

- I rebuilt 8 3/4 from '72 demon with open diff and 3.23 gears
- add a new three core copper brass radiator
- new calipers from A1 Cardone
- Cardone reman services rebulit my orginal booster and master (Steve Tortu in the R&R department is the man at Cardone)

Funny you mention the 318. I was offered my pick of (2) 318's just this week. A 1968 and 1974 date coded blocks. I will test compression and leakdown and put the best one in of the bunch. Thanks for the advise.
 
ONLY IF -
its a rare car.
if your planning on reselling.
or planning this car as family heirloom.
or if you planning to put so much money in it and looking to get it back. matching numbers helps.

other than that. its your car
you own it.
make it your and do whatever you want to it.
 
pauly v.100 said:
Spend a couple bills and a weekend and drop a teen in there, then go have fun while you decide on it's future plans.
It sucks starting a big project before getting a chance to enjoy it for a while first.
When ready, do what ever suits you, a 340 or stroked 360 car will out-sell a 273 car all day.
Those Keystones look right on your car, and I don't even like them that much, nice ride sir!
Click to expand...
I'm a big fan of this method! I hate my cars down, especially for a length of time. I like to get an engine ready, then pull and replace.
 
If this were my car, and if I hear you right that you are going to sell it in the future, I would use what I have, meaning the 273, and save money by just rebuilding that! Put it back in fresh and have some fun! That's what I would do! If it's your dream car, build it the way you want it!
 
Bottom line is it's your car do it your way don't try to make others happy. If you are looking at it as only an investment to make money on it already has non-original paint and stripes. I honestly believe the car would be worth more money to most people with a quality 340 or 360 build that would greatly improve the performance and fun factor. I have 360s in both my 67 and 69. I built them for me but not really looking to sell them so that wasn't a factor.
 
Ottmundr said:
Numbers matching don't mean dick, and here is why.

1) You said that you are building this car primarily for your enjoyment.

2) If or when you do decide to sell the car, AND if you have spent any serious money on it more significant than little pissant **** like fuel pump, oil filter, lightbulbs, fuel filter, oil changes, you WILL be losing money. A car is NOT a financial investment. If you want to grow your capital then put in a mild to wild 401k/ROTH IRA/savings account. With the rule of 72, you will be money ahead.

3) A car is NOT a liquid asset, and you will possibly have to sit on it for a long time trying to sell it. Consider also showroom floor fees, insurance et cetera WILL be eating into your net profit.

I have seen all this in my life. My dad used to restore all kinds of cars, from steam powered horseless carriages to classic cars, custom cars, and modern cars. He won numerous awards and would go to shows and auctions, as a shower, a judge, buyer, or seller.

I remember most pointedly the uptight assholes in the PCA (Porsche Club of America) as the worst of the lot. So ******* obsessed about perfect paint, out there polishing their shifty little bathtub 356 speedsters, roadsters, and coupes. None of those leaky kraut oilcans could even touch a first generation Mazda Miata in the performance department. None of which were fun to drive because you were always worried about a ******* rockchip in the paint or on the windshield.

When I first got my '67 barracuda convertible in 1992, it was ugly as ****, i drove it everywhere and ENJOYED it. After my dad and I restored it, it looked beautiful, but... I hated parking at the grocery store, constantly had to back off any car that jumped in front of me for fear of rocks being kicked up which could chip the paint or windshield, constantly had to wash it because of bugs and pollen...

Now with my '68 fastback, I am building it the way I want, swapping in parts I want and painting it whatever color I want. I couldn't give two ***** about resale value.

How much do you want to drive your car? How much do you want to stress out over your car? Your call.
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I agree completely with your post, and that's how i do things these days and why.
I'm also tired of matching numbers, what's it going to be worth after i fix it up, worried about paint chips and scratches, driving the car in the rain, etc etc etc.
Have fun and enjoy it, do the car the way you want, and forget about the money, you'll probably never recoup your investment.
However, with that being said, you should keep the vulgar language down in your posts, this is a family site after all...........
 
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First and foremost the car belongs to you. Personally I'm not a numbers guy. I know what it can do to value, and can appreciate their presence. But honestly I don't own to collect and build value - I own to enjoy. In terms of numbers matching the value has a ton to do with what we're talking about. A fast back A body Barracuda is a fairly hot car now, but a '67 273 IMO is not a performance ride like a Formula S, or a 4bbl car. Cool ride - but value is not tied to numbers matching powertrain like a Formula S car would be.
In regard to the questions:
" 1. Should I just save original 273 and A904 for the next owner or can I just pull the forged crank from the 273 and hold the 920 closed chambered heads and let the rest go? If you have the room, save it. If not, sell it. No reason to keep the crank or heads IMO.
2. Will it hurt the value if I add headrests (for safety reasons) to the 67 buckets? It wouldn't bother me. I probably wouldn't even notice.
3. Besides the fact it cost more to find and build a 340 vs 360 but will the vehicle have more value and buyer appeal with a 340? Not to me. 340s were not in '67s, and a 360 looks the part with potentially more streetable power and lower overall cost to get in there running. If you can score a 340, cool. But I'd go 360.
4. Do stroked engines turn on or turn off "most" buyers? All depends on the buyers. If the car was a year the 340 came in, many might want it left alone. Someone like me would appreciate anything if it's done well and the car performs. It's a '67 and you're changing it anyway. Keep it on the milder side if you want to keep the buyer market bigger and I think the majority of potential buyers will feel good about it when they drive it. If the brakes suck, and the car rattles your teeth, and you can't hear the guy sitting 2' away from you, your buyer will need to not care about any of that.

I'll add - Mopars have body color engine bays and under hood areas. I take HUGE points off for blacked out. It could have a 426 Hemi in it, if it's black under hood and gold everywhere else, it's a poor, half-assed attempt.
 
moper said:
First and foremost the car belongs to you. Personally I'm not a numbers guy. I know what it can do to value, and can appreciate their presence. But honestly I don't own to collect and build value - I own to enjoy. In terms of numbers matching the value has a ton to do with what we're talking about. A fast back A body Barracuda is a fairly hot car now, but a '67 273 IMO is not a performance ride like a Formula S, or a 4bbl car. Cool ride - but value is not tied to numbers matching powertrain like a Formula S car would be.
In regard to the questions:
" 1. Should I just save original 273 and A904 for the next owner or can I just pull the forged crank from the 273 and hold the 920 closed chambered heads and let the rest go? If you have the room, save it. If not, sell it. No reason to keep the crank or heads IMO.
2. Will it hurt the value if I add headrests (for safety reasons) to the 67 buckets? It wouldn't bother me. I probably wouldn't even notice.
3. Besides the fact it cost more to find and build a 340 vs 360 but will the vehicle have more value and buyer appeal with a 340? Not to me. 340s were not in '67s, and a 360 looks the part with potentially more streetable power and lower overall cost to get in there running. If you can score a 340, cool. But I'd go 360.
4. Do stroked engines turn on or turn off "most" buyers? All depends on the buyers. If the car was a year the 340 came in, many might want it left alone. Someone like me would appreciate anything if it's done well and the car performs. It's a '67 and you're changing it anyway. Keep it on the milder side if you want to keep the buyer market bigger and I think the majority of potential buyers will feel good about it when they drive it. If the brakes suck, and the car rattles your teeth, and you can't hear the guy sitting 2' away from you, your buyer will need to not care about any of that.

I'll add - Mopars have body color engine bays and under hood areas. I take HUGE points off for blacked out. It could have a 426 Hemi in it, if it's black under hood and gold everywhere else, it's a poor, half-assed attempt.
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Moper....I could not agree more about the black engine bay. I am planning on repainting the bay before I swap in a new engine. I got a color sample from O'Reilly and it is close but they could not achieve the metal flake size or the depth in the metallic 80's respray the car wears today. The color is good but the metallic flake is too small. The metal flake in my paint reminds me of the flake in the gel-coat of a Fiberglas boat. Wish me luck on finding a good paint supplier.

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ever compare those VINs i mentioned?

(just curious here)
 
Cool Apply clear over the gold they gave you and see what it looks like. You can also have them mix up a couple other options using a large metallic, and adding more to the formula. It looks like they are quite close but they are using a finer metallic with less in the mix. The depth comes with the clear coat in most modern colors.
 
It would have to be a really unique car and one worthy of going down the original restoration and retaining road. Do what you want and enjoy the car. If you want to invest in something, go buy some Gold. If you want to invest in good times, make the car how you want it and run the wheels off it....

Nice car OP,

JW
 
diymirage said:
ever compare those VINs i mentioned?

(just curious here)
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Hey diymirage

I took pictures of both VIN NUMBERS plates on the car. According to www.lhmopars.com De-codes to a B-Barracuda Horace class higher 29- 2 door sports D-2bbl 273 8 cylinder LA ENGINE 2-built in Hamtramck MI. Looks like all Barracuda

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