518 46re smoked

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MOPAROFFICIAL

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46re/518 Lost all forward gear, got reverse...a little wobbly...and oh yeah, 1st also goes in reverse.

I'm curious to hear diagnosis and what you guys think will be on the hard parts list.
 
well,well, somebodies been out having fun

When you say all forward gears are lost; is that with a manual-VB?

If reverse still works, then the following items are still working; the pump, the hi-drum, and the L/R band.
If both manual-low, and reverse, only get you reverse; then the hi-drum is piled up and the forward clutch is leaking pressure big-time.
If with a manual VB, you cannot get second or third, then the forward clutch is not working at all.
So,you may need a piston in the forward clutch (called rear by Mopar) and then a major overhaul kit with bands, and sprag kit.

Then;some 4.30 gears, a chassis weight reduction program, and put the teener back in,lol. Ok just kidding, about this last part.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
well,well, somebodies been out having fun

When you say all forward gears are lost; is that with a manual-VB?

If reverse still works, then the following items are still working; the pump, the hi-drum, and the L/R band.
If both manual-low, and reverse, only get you reverse; then the hi-drum is piled up and the forward clutch is leaking pressure big-time.
If with a manual VB, you cannot get second or third, then the forward clutch is not working at all.
So,you may need a piston in the forward clutch (called rear by Mopar) and then a major overhaul kit with bands, and sprag kit.

Then;some 4.30 gears, a chassis weight reduction program, and put the teener back in,lol. Ok just kidding, about this last part.
Click to expand...
LOL . Full auto VB. Pushed it hard, hit some terrain..lol...kick down lever flew off...only had 1st for a bit till I got back on the road...coasted down the hill 5 block, went through a parking lot rolling to avoid lights. It was all kinds of fun.
 
Complete rebuild. I'd suspect the fluid is black and your bands are burned like a cigarette.

The reverse in first makes me think that there's a shift kit or something in there. Applying reverse band in low, which is actually what you want in a performance setup. A lot of valve bodies/shift kits do this. Obviously with the first band gone, it's only getting reverse. At least that's how 727's work as I understand.
 
Cost me about 500 to 600 to rebuild it myself including a converter....just a 727 with an overdrive on it....
 
The L/R band is used in both Low and Reverse.Edit Manual low uses the L/R band
Reverse needs the Hi-clutch to work, and Low needs the Forward clutch to work.

But with NO manual VB
and to get first gear in Drive, the rear sprag is used. And you cannot get any other forward gears until the governor commands a shift. So if you select second or third at a stop, you will not get either until the governor pressure is up there.

So now, new story.
With a factory VB, and having reverse only, no matter what selector position is selected, the rooster comb is probably disconnected.
But if you have a neutral and Park, then the rooster comb is good, and I would guess, your hi-clutch is not disengaging, along with a failed forward clutch; same diagnoses as previous post.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
The L/R band is used in both Low and Reverse
Click to expand...

But not in a stock 727 as I understand. They won't apply the reverse band in low without modification, they just freewheel. And not with some older shift kits/valve bodies. It's something you have to add. Not saying that 46RE's are the same. But my experience is generally limited to 904/727's. So not sure if 46RE is different.
 
70aarcuda said:
Cost me about 500 to 600 to rebuild it myself including a converter....just a 727 with an overdrive on it....
Click to expand...
I'm sure it does but you are like the mopar mad scientist !!!
You make stock stroke 360's
Run to their potential and keep many cars going with constant abuse !
While most of us mere mortals can't find the time to fix one or two!!
My hat is off to you !!
You are an inspiration to me !!
Thanks !!
 
When you put a TF in Manual Low, you lock the rear drum stationary. When you put a TF in Drive, the sprague does a similar job.
The sprag is not meant to be abused by towing, neutral-drops or racing. It provides a bit of a cushion when selecting Drive-low.
When you downshift a TF from second to first, You are engaging the L/R band. Same for the KD 2-1 shift.
 
AJ/FormS said:
When you put a TF in Manual Low, you lock the rear drum stationary. When you put a TF in Drive, the sprague does a similar job.
The sprag is not meant to be abused by towing, neutral-drops or racing. It provides a bit of a cushion when selecting Drive-low.
When you downshift a TF from second to first, You are engaging the L/R band. Same for the KD 2-1 shift.
Click to expand...

I thought stock valve body 727's did not engage the rear band in low. I know that some aftermarket valve bodies/shift kits do not engage the rear band in low gear. I know that this something you HAVE to make sure your transmission has or you can detonate the sprag if you don't drive it right. Burnouts being the main thing.
 
AJ/FormS said:
When you put a TF in Manual Low, you lock the rear drum stationary. When you put a TF in Drive, the sprague does a similar job.
The sprag is not meant to be abused by towing, neutral-drops or racing. It provides a bit of a cushion when selecting Drive-low.
When you downshift a TF from second to first, You are engaging the L/R band. Same for the KD 2-1 shift.
Click to expand...

I checked the valve body, pulled it out, disassembled n cleaned it, reinstalled it. Bands were slacked out, the adjuster block fell out of the front band. Junk. 2 1/2 turns is what I remembered off the top of my head and set them to. Drove in 1st, all it had, till it quit, about 3000-4000rpm haha
 
I would really pay attention to the overdrive unit internals. The planetaries and Torrington bearings disintegrate really quickly once a failure occurs. The O/D unit always seems to collect much of the junk in the trans and burn up. If you don't have the proper tools and a press, let a professional go over it. The spring pressure in the o/d unit is ridiculous, and will hurt. Just trying to help
 
Moparman1806 said:
I would really pay attention to the overdrive unit internals. The planetaries and Torrington bearings disintegrate really quickly once a failure occurs. The O/D unit always seems to collect much of the junk in the trans and burn up. If you don't have the proper tools and a press, let a professional go over it. The spring pressure in the o/d unit is ridiculous, and will hurt. Just trying to help
Click to expand...
Have press. That's the factor I'm weighing.
I've done plenty of 904,727,c4, 3spds mostly....but no 500/518 od versions.
 
If you have rebuild a 727, then you can rebuild the 46RE...46Rh....minor changes from the 727...rear drum held in with snap ring is one...Get the ATSG for the 46RE...

here is how to rebuild the overdrive....going to need a couple special tools but can be done

 
70aarcuda said:
Cost me about 500 to 600 to rebuild it myself including a converter....just a 727 with an overdrive on it....
Click to expand...

This makes me think of when I was looking for a TF2 kit for my 42RH and a local shop quoted me $325.00.
That actually made me laugh on the spot and got one off Ebay for under 100.
Problem is, we can't buy an Ebay rebuild and we are stuck with whatever the best local price we can get.
And then there's the part where we have to question the rebuild quality on top of that.

This is just one reason I do all my own work on my car.
Can't hardly even trust shops to be able to actually do a job any more.
 
RE's cost more to rebuild around here versus A500's or 46RH's. Solenoids maybe versus the simplier 727 type parts? 545RFE's are even worse!
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
46re/518 Lost all forward gear, got reverse...a little wobbly...and oh yeah, 1st also goes in reverse.

I'm curious to hear diagnosis and what you guys think will be on the hard parts list.
Click to expand...
Until you've got it ALL apart it's difficult to say. Could be just a friction/steel/gasket set rebuild or it could need a lot of hard parts. No matter what, replace all the solenoids. One ATRA seminar I attended the instructor had this to say about any solenoid in the oil circuit.
WHEN IN DOUBT, THROW IT OUT.
 
pauly said:
RE's cost more to rebuild around here versus A500's or 46RH's. Solenoids maybe versus the simplier 727 type parts? 545RFE's are even worse!
Click to expand...

46RE and 46RH use the same solenoid to control the overdrive and lockup clutch...only difference RH is hydraulic control shifting vs electronic control shifting...
 
Thanks for all the help everyone, I'm mulling it over. I'd rather build it myself but I need to make space and a stand....hmm
 
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